my argument with ebay - this is funny

[Sunstorm]

OK, so as you all know, I'm selling a bunch of my TFs to generate wedding funds. I listed my reissue Megatron figure, and it enjoyed a few days of being viewable, with even the starting bid of £29.99 put onto it. I then get a message telling me the item has been removed from listing as it breached their policy on knives/firearms etc etc. Below, is the trail of e-mails so far between myself and ebay, with their paper-thin, hilarious argument about how I've breached their policy. I await their next reply;

Their first e-mail to me, informing me of the removal
MC036 eBay Listing Removed: Firearms, Weapons, and Knives ( 203551533)
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Dear nuckfluckchuckbuck([email protected]),

We appreciate that you chose eBay to list your auction-style listing(s). However, we have removed your auction-style listing(s) because it breaches our Firearms, Weapons, and Knives policy. We notified members who placed bids on the item that the listing has been canceled.

150243728377 - Transformers Takara Megatron reissue boxed G1


Why did we remove your listing?

In accordance with our User Agreement, items prohibited by law or by eBay policy are not allowed on eBay.

Since buying and selling weapons is highly regulated in the UK and Ireland, and may harm eBay and its members, you're not allowed to list weapons on eBay.

Firearms include any component part of a firearm, sporting, collectible, curio & relic, signaling pistols, and antique firearms, regardless of their capability to fire a shot. Any item designed to discharge any shot, bullet or other missile is covered by this ban, regardless of that item's current ability to fire a shot. Replica and imitation firearms are also covered by this ban.



Your listing(s) may be eligible for relisting through My eBay. If your listing is eligible, you'll see it in the Unsold Items section of My eBay. Listings that are not eligible for relisting will not be visible in the Unsold Items page.

To relist your item, log in to My eBay, go to your Unsold Items and select the item that was cancelled -- it's highlighted with a yellow banner. Before relisting, please make any changes necessary to ensure that the listing is in compliance with the law and eBay policies. You might want to check your other listings for similar breaches as well.



IMPORTANT NOTICE: If your listings breach eBay policy in future, your eBay privileges could be suspended. We value you as a member of our community and wish to continue this relationship, so we must ask you to refrain from further breaches of the User Agreement and eBay policy.

Please review eBay's Prohibited and Restricted Items guidelines and User Agreement by copying these links into a new browser window

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/item_allowed.html
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/u ... ement.html

For more information on why eBay removes s, or to write to us with questions, please copy this link into a new browser window:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/confidence ... ended.html

Thank you for your cooperation in this important matter.


Regards,

eBay Trust & Safety


------------------------------------------------------------------

My initial, rather angry reply
Dear ebay,
Honestly, how dumb are you? THIS IS ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!!! This item is a TOY! It is listed in the TOY section, it is labelled as a TOY in
the item description. It is in NO WAY a firearm, nor is it capable of
injuring anyone. Furthermore, I have paid money to list this item AND I
had a bidder who put on the opening bid of £29.99. I absolutely demand
that you refund my listing fee for the item as I have NOT breached any
ebay user agreements. If the person cancelling the item had even
bothered to take 2 seconds to look at the listing, they would see that
this item is a TOY. How many times must I write the word TOY! TOY! TOY!
TOY! TOY! I expect an e-mail apology immediately for the sheer stupidity
you have shown here. I am angry that I have had to pay listing fees for
this nonsense, but I'm even angrier that you have taken a £29.99 bid
away from me FOR NO GOOD REASON. OPEN UP YOUR EYES AND READ DESCRIPTIONS BEFORE YOU TAKE DRASTIC ACTION AND CANCEL THINGS!!!! Colin Thompson,
nuckfluckchuckbuck
-----------------------------------------------------------------

So, following my above reply, here's the response I got;
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dear nuckfluckchuckbuck([email protected]),
We appreciate that you chose eBay to list your auction-style listing(s).
However, we have removed your auction-style listing(s) because it
breaches our Firearms, Weapons, and Knives policy. We notified members who placed bids on the item that the listing has been canceled.
150243728377 - Transformers Takara Megatron reissue boxed G1
Why did we remove your listing?
In accordance with our User Agreement, items prohibited by law or by
eBay policy are not allowed on eBay.
Since buying and selling weapons is highly regulated in the UK and
Ireland, and may harm eBay and its members, you're not allowed to list
weapons on eBay.

Firearms include any component part of a firearm, sporting, collectible,
curio & relic, signaling pistols, and antique firearms, regardless of
their capability to fire a shot. Any item designed to discharge any
shot, bullet or other missile is covered by this ban, regardless of that
item's current ability to fire a shot. Replica and imitation firearms
are also covered by this ban.
Your listing(s) may be eligible for relisting through My eBay. If your
listing is eligible, you'll see it in the Unsold Items section of My
eBay. Listings that are not eligible for relisting will not be visible
in the Unsold Items page.
To relist your item, log in to My eBay, go to your Unsold Items and
select the item that was cancelled -- it's highlighted with a yellow
banner. Before relisting, please make any changes necessary to ensure
that the listing is in compliance with the law and eBay policies. You
might want to check your other listings for similar breaches as well.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: If your listings breach eBay policy in future, your
eBay privileges could be suspended. We value you as a member of our
community and wish to continue this relationship, so we must ask you to
refrain from further breaches of the User Agreement and eBay policy.
Please review eBay's Prohibited and Restricted Items guidelines and User
Agreement by copying these links into a new browser window
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/item_allowed.html
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/u ... ement.html
For more information on why eBay removes s, or to write to us with
questions, please copy this link into a new browser window:
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/confidence ... ended.html
Thank you for your cooperation in this important matter.
Regards,
eBay Trust & Safety
------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope you're all following this so far - I've just been quoted their policy twice, with no real answer that makes sense..... my next reply to them;
Dear ebay,
How can you say that listing was removed correctly!? How bureaucraticly
DUMB are you, ebay? As a TOY, the transformer Megatron is one of the
most popular out there. ALL of them look like mine. ALL of them work
like mine. If you remove mine, then you must remove ALL of them from
sale. Yet, oh, that's funny, if I type in a search, I find MANY, MANY
identical items to the one I was selling. Your argument that my item
breached your terms is completely and utterly LAUGHABLE. As it happens, I have now arranged to sell it privately. Rather than go through the rigmoral and disappointment of your stupidity again, I have saved
myself, and you, the embarassment. Whoever made this decision and also decided that your reply confirming the item was "removed correctly",
needs their head looking at. I have goldish with more intelligence. I
won't thank you for refunding my listing fees, as it's only what I
deserved in the matter. The TOY I was selling was no more dangerous than a packet of crisps.

And yet, ebay seem desperate to dig themselves a bigger hole - here's the next reply from them from a Garth Butcher;
Hello,

Thank you for writing to eBay.

Unfortunately, we have an email straight from our policy managers to ban
the sale of megatron toys becase the gun looks real. Please note that
our policies are often more strict than the law.

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to reply to
this email and let us know.

Kind regards,

Garth Butcher
eBay Trust & Safety

STILL unhappy that they haven't answered why they haven't removed all Megs toys from sale, I persisted and sent this next reply;
OH MY GOD! Does anyone even read the content of e-mails we send
to you, ebay!? It's enough to make you tear your hair
out!! Right now there are COUNTLESS other Megatron toys on sale. Both
the G1 original and even the masterpiece which really IS the size of a
real gun! If you must remove mine from sale, then why didn't you remove everyone elses? Like I said in my previous e-mail, I have found a
private buyer, so I couldn't care less about trying to sell it through
ebay now. What DOES concern me, is that no-one answers the questions
that I ask in my e-mails. So that there is no conjecture here, I will
type my question, now for the THIRD time, in capital letters. WHY DIDN'T
YOU BAN THE SALE OF ALL MEGATRON TOYS IF YOU INSIST THIS RULE MUST BE ENFORCED??? Answer that question. I don't want to hear anymore bureaucratic answers on what your policies are - I KNOW the policy, I've had it rammed down my throat the last two replies from you. I want to know why you seem so adamant that the policy must be enforced, yet you only seem to ban a small percentage of those Megatron toys actually on sale on your website. THIS is what I find totally, unequivocably UNFAIR about your policy. Not the policy itself, the way you sparsely enforce it. Now, I beg of you, ANSWER THAT QUESTION! I am awaiting your next amusingly amateurish answer. I will continue to reply each time you decide not to answer me. Believe me, I WILL NOT GO AWAY until you answer me.

So, this morning, I get a reply from a Rachel Baxter and it reads;
Hello Colin,

Thank you for writing eBay. My name is Rachel Baxter and I will be happy
to assist you today.

With regard to your concern about other listings you may see on the site
that are similar to yours, I understand your position. Let me assure
you that you are not being targeted or discriminated against, and that
we value having you as a member.

The Community Watch Team understands there are auctions currently
running on the site that are in violation of our listing policies or
guidelines. Please understand that with over 1 million active listings
at any given time, it is not always feasible for us to be aware of all
violating listings within the time frame of some auctions. I know this
may not seem fair because these listings are live on the site, however,
during our search for listing policy violations, or when members like
yourself report these listings and bring them to our attention, we fully
investigate each report. Listings that are found to be in violation of
our policies are dealt with appropriately, and repeated offences are
dealt with appropriately.

To submit a report to us, please do so through the following link:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/contact_us ... index.html


Thank you for your understanding in this matter.

Kind Regards,

Rachel Baxter
eBay Customer Support

And yet, that above answer is, well, let's face it - it's total rubbish. Here is my latest reply to them, sent a few minutes ago;
So, let me get this right here. It is up to an individual member to report an individual auction for a breaching item before you will cancel the auction? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's just ebay being lazy and picky. You could EASILY find all the Megatron's being listed by typing in that one word to search, MEGATRON, yourselves. To say you rely upon someone reporting an individual item in this way before you remove it is impracticable when measured against how you enthuse about enforcing your policy. No matter how you garnish your answers, the simple fact remains that you removed my item from sale, losing me a potential £29.99 bid, whilst being blinkered enough to close your eyes and ears to other identical items on the site. What your department SHOULD have done, after removing my listing, is perform the above search I suggested by typing in just one little word, Megatron, and you would have been presented with potentially ALL the identical items to mine that should also have been removed. There really is no answer you can give me, other than omitting that you clearly do not enforce your policies as strongly as you claim you do. You are obviously happy to have a great number of identical items to be sold through your site, gaining you listing and final valuation fees, provided the individual item isn't reported to you by some ebay member, a "see no evil, hear no evil" approach, if you will. Unless you had taken the action I suggested, removing all identical items, I cannot see how my statement can be untrue. You cannot really expect me to believe that no member of staff at ebay is unable to perform a simple, daily search, using keywords like Megatron, to see if anyone has the item listed, and if said items are found, they are removed from listing. Only if someone chooses to list the item without the main keyword and name, Megatron, would it pass under your radar, but then, the seller wouldn't expect to get many people viewing the item, given that any serious transformer buyer would always use the word megatron if that's what they were looking for. What I'm saying here is, you clearly DO have the ability to remove the vast majority of these listings, but you CHOOSE not to, which isn't really in line with the policy I keep being quoted, is it? By all means, enforce your policies, but DO NOT LIE by saying you couldn't remove other listings without the help of other ebay members. That just isn't true. I look forward to the next poorly constructed argument, because each and every time I get an e-mail from you, that's all it has been.


and so the saga continues. I can't wait to see what bulls**t they come up with next

[Ramjet]

I think you'll keep on getting the same run-around time after time. That's why you gotta put an orange tip on him. So, did they refund you listing fees then? I have heard they may ban Megs from e Gay altogether!

[Sunstorm]

I think you'll keep on getting the same run-around time after time. That's why you gotta put an orange tip on him. So, did they refund you listing fees then? I have heard they may ban Megs from e Gay altogether!

I'm almost positive they'll keep giving the same answer too, Ramjet. The one I was selling was a G1 reissue, so the orange tip wasn't an option as it is on the Masterpiece ones. It's political correctness gone crazy.

They did refund my listing fees, yes. My argument with them is that they should indeed ban the sale of ALL of them, rather than trying to weakly enforce the policy as they are now by only removing those that are actually reported to them. Obviously, they are happy to continue to receive their fees for those that go unreported... Only by removing them all from sale can they show that they are enforcing their stance as strongly as they suggested when they just quoted their policy at me. Until they actually admit that they are NOT enforcing their policy properly, I'll just keep hounding them. Like I said in one of my e-mails to them, I don't have a problem with their policy, I have a problem with how they choose to enforce it. Their first replies suggest a whiter than white approach, where they will ban the sale of all these items, when the reality is they stick their head in the sand and only ban those that are actually reported to them.

[Hot Shot]

I had a similar issue when I sold a G1 megatron. This was right around the time they put that policy into effect. They pulled my auction and I got the same run around. They refunded my listing fee and I got the lame Sorry message. There were at the time a lot of Megatron figures listed...So I also was a little upset. I ended up reposting the figure with a taped on Orange tube over the barrel. Never raised any flags and my figure sold. Sounds like someone reported your figure to remove some of the competion for bidders. Otherwise they never would have taken notice.

[Sunstorm]

Otherwise they never would have taken notice.

... and that's just precisely my problem with them.

If they have a policy they keep quoting at me, they should enforce it for everyone. Otherwise, it's just discriminatory

[Lennyluck]

Thats crap Sunstorm...I just checked and there are pages upon pages of Megs coming up. Their B.S'ing you. If they wanna band all Megs that includes the MP series thats a bit bigger than the Orig. G1. looking more like a real piece.

I've sold them before (MP's, G1, Commerative) and the only thing I Made sure to list is that the "orange tip must be added for shipping Purposes". Ask me how many times I actually put an orange tip on a misb Meg.

You've got a bunch of Idiots who don't know their own companies policies.
Give them a call, try not to be too harsh as any rep who takes care of you is not the person who's been messing w/u. You've gotta call them, don't waste time emailing back and forth. And your right you should get back your listing fees due to it being their mistake. I've had two listings taken off, but I have to admit they were actually weapons. The spiked barbaric club...lolz and they got me with the Brass Knuckles belt buckle...ha, they were good on that one. In your situation get intouch with a supervisor and take it from there.

[Sunstorm]

Thats crap Sunstorm...I just checked and there are pages upon pages of Megs coming up. Their B.S'ing you. If they wanna band all Megs that includes the MP series thats a bit bigger than the Orig. G1. looking more like a real piece.

I've sold them before (MP's, G1, Commerative) and the only thing I Made sure to list is that the "orange tip must be added for shipping Purposes". Ask me how many times I actually put an orange tip on a misb Meg.

You've got a bunch of Idiots who don't know their own companies policies.
Give them a call, try not to be too harsh as any rep who takes care of you is not the person who's been messing w/u. You've gotta call them, don't waste time emailing back and forth. And your right you should get back your listing fees due to it being their mistake. I've had two listings taken off, but I have to admit they were actually weapons. The spiked barbaric club...lolz and they got me with the Brass Knuckles belt buckle...ha, they were good on that one. In your situation get intouch with a supervisor and take it from there.

They did refund my listing fees, so my argument certainly isn't over this fact. I am more bothered by the fact that they think they can fob me off with BS answers that just keep re-quoting their supposed "policy". I am trying to get them to understand that they do not enforce their policies as they claim they do.

[Minerva]

Jeez... totally ridiculous! What the heck is eBay doing!?
Hope everything works out for the best, Sunstorm.

[Commander Megatron]

Sunstorm.....GIVE 'EM HELL!!!!
What a load of crap, there are far mopre offensive things on sale on ebay. Look at all the Optimus Pri...I mean all the other Megatrons on there. Why did they just single yours out? Load of nonsense, persist with the argument until they remove all the Megatrons. Keep us informed of what is happening!!

[Sideways]

That's the reason I don't use ebay much.

[Sunstorm]

Don't you worry commander, I WILL give them hell. I've worked in a customer service environment for the past 8 years and I know every fob-off in the book. So, here we go - more amusing stuff. the latest;

their reply to my last e-mail;
Hello,

Thank you for writing to eBay. My name is Henry and I appreciate the
time you have taken to write to us.

If you feel that our policies should be changed, feel free to submit a
suggestion to improve our site. Many of the changes made on the site are
due to suggestions received from our eBay Members. While we are unable
to implement every suggestion, we do review all of the suggestions we
receive.

You can send your suggestions by clicking on the following link:
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/newtoebay/suggest.html

Then click on one of the two options:

- Send us your suggestion to improve the eBay site.
OR
- Send us your suggestion to add a new category.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Kind regards,

Henry Ovaltine
eBay Customer Support

My reply to them - oh god, I can't wait to see what they say next;

Yet again, I am dumbstruck by the stupidity and unwillingness to actually answer the question I have asked. Or rather, confirm the statement I have made. Ebay obviously do not care enough to enforce their firearms/weapons policy to the point where they will actively seek out auctions that violate this policy. You have said yourselves that you rely on members reporting such auctions. To say that you cannot actively seek out these auctions is simply untrue - I can rephrase your policy for you. The only reason you do not actively enforce the policy is because you are happy to receive fees for such items, provided they are not actually reported to you. I still maintain, a "see no evil, hear no evil" approach is being carried out in respect of this policy here. I have no wish to change your policy on selling firearms/weapons, because it is a sensible idea not to sell such things through ebay - I DO wish that you acknowledge that you enforce this policy completely randomly and unfairly, thereby almost negating the whole reason for the policy in the first place. In other words, you are happy for your site to list and sell these items as long as you don't know about it. THAT is the point I have made in my last 4 or 5 e-mails to you, ebay. Quoting policy at me, telling me how I can submit suggestions to improve the site - these are completely irrelevant from the statement I have made. Why should I, and other ebay members, do your job for you? It is YOUR site, YOUR policies, and therefore YOUR OWN JOB to ensure that auctions do not violate your policies. Why on earth should I go to the trouble of submitting a suggested improvement, when all I want (and brace yourself, because I'm about to say it again) is for you to admit that you do not enforce your policies properly. If you feel that you were justified in cancelling my auction in line with your policy, as per the first e-mail reply I received said, then you should also be able to backup your action, by demonstrating that you take this action with EVERY member who does the same thing. Unless you can demonstrate this, the ONLY conclusion I can reach is that you are discriminating randomly against ebay members by not being consistent in enforcing your policy. Trying to fob me off by telling me you can only remove those auctions reported is again, "see no evil, hear no evil". I'm not unrealistic enough to assume that you can find ALL items that violate said policy, but what I do expect is that ebay actually TRIES to do the best they can, and DOESN'T leave it up to their own members to report them on an auction-by-auction basis. I don't see why I should go to the trouble of submitting a "suggested improvement", if no-one in your customer support centre can see for themselves that by leaving violating auctions to be reported to them, they are leaving their own policy open to exploit moreso than if they at least try to remove some of the items themselves. Now, please, do not insult me by replying to me about ways I can submit suggested improvements or how my item violated your policy. I know this all already. If you are going to reply, do so in a constructive, concise manner, addressing my questions and statements point by point, so that I can actually see someone has read my e-mail in full and taken on board my views here. By all means, object to what I have said, criticise it - I welcome your views on what I have said. But whatever you do, don't waste what will be your 6th or 7th reply to me on words that have no bearing on the questions I have asked or the statements I have made. Furthermore, so far, no-one has gone through what your full complaints procedure is. You must have one. I would like to know how I utilise and exhaust this process, and if I feel you haven't given me a satisfactory answer, then I wish to approach whoever your ruling body/ombudsman is on this matter, as is my statutory right. I do not expect an e-mail that attempts to fob me off again, ebay. READ my e-mail, think about what I have said, and then come back to me with an intelligent answer to my questions and statements.

[Roar]

I think you'll keep on getting the same run-around time after time. That's why you gotta put an orange tip on him. So, did they refund you listing fees then? I have heard they may ban Megs from e Gay altogether!

Sunstorm..........if you need the barrel orange tip for your Masterpiece Megatron I will gladly send you the one that came out of mine free of charge (shipping mailing the whole shebang) if it'll help you sell it! I don't want or need the thing but I sure am glad I saved it. Let me know!




I understand why you know where has done what it has done to a point. The world is full of nutjobs and they are afraid they'll be sued if one of those nutjobs run out of the corral........

however........

I've seen plenty of MP Megatrons in the place! If the place is going to have that policy then the place should make everyone adhere to it by not allowing anyone to sell the MP Megatron!

You have more patience than me, Sunstorm! I would have already pitched a bigger fit than you have! I hope everything turns out okay!

[Commander Megatron]

Sunstorm, tell the truth...you are enjoying the argument....?

(Hey, I only ask because I would be!!)

[Rumble]

*Gets off of chair from where he has been watching the argument.*

The only reason I can think of that E-bay would have removed your listing is that you had a picture of Megs in his gun mode (obviously without an orange plug)? I have heard of this happening many times before on Megatron auctions due to the fact that he can easily be confused with a real gun (Compare to the 'classics' Megs). I believe that this problem is much less common if he is shown in robot mode only.

Now that I have said my piece, there is only one more thing to say........









FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

*Sits back down and waits for more E-bay repiles.*

Rumble.

[Time Traveller]

Tell them to can it with their canned responses. You're just getting prewritten automated crap.

[Sunstorm]

Just so there's no confusion here, the Megs I was selling is a G1 re-issue, not a Masterpiece, so the orange cap thing isn't an option. It does say it in the posts, but then, there's a LOT to read, so I'm not surprised people missed it...

And oh yes, I'm totally enjoying the fight. I like to see how they dig themselves a bigger hole with each reply....

[Rumble]

Just so there's no confusion here, the Megs I was selling is a G1 re-issue, not a Masterpiece, so the orange cap thing isn't an option.

Sorry I meant the G1 Megs in my post above, I only mentioned the orange cap as it is part of toy gun Health and Safety law now.

Rumble.

[Roar]

Just so there's no confusion here, the Megs I was selling is a G1 re-issue, not a Masterpiece, so the orange cap thing isn't an option. It does say it in the posts, but then, there's a LOT to read, so I'm not surprised people missed it...

And oh yes, I'm totally enjoying the fight. I like to see how they dig themselves a bigger hole with each reply....

Oh.......um...sorry.

They're still full of used energon!

If anyone needs the MP-05 gun barrel plug I will give it to you.

[Time Traveller]

There shall be NO barrel plugging on my forum. Got it?

[Roar]

There shall be NO barrel plugging on my forum. Got it?

I love this place!