Box/Decals Reference Numbers

Discuss in-depth toy info: markings, variations, packaging, or paperwork, or ask our experts your tough TF questions! General ID questions go in Toy Talk.

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babycatlloyd
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Box/Decals Reference Numbers

Post by babycatlloyd »

Recently started collecting the G1 line and I'm running into more and more questions.
I've been trying to figure out what the numbers on the front of G1 packaging actually refer to.

It seems like the first set of numbers reference match the decal sheets (when they're printed on the sheets) and the instruction manuals.
But do they reference anything else?

For example, I have 3 G1 Mirage boxes, 2 original and 1 reproduction.

1 authentic and 1 reproduction box have the following sequence: [E] 5744/5750 ASST.
The other authentic box has: [E] 5744/5766 ASST.

So my questions are:
- What does the letter signify?
- Do the first four digits always refer to the decals and manuals, is that it? Anything else?
- What are the last four digits referring to? Why are they not consistent?
- What does ASST stand for?

Any info would be greatly appreciated!
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Time Traveller
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Re: Box/Decals Reference Numbers

Post by Time Traveller »

Welcome Lloyd! You have some fantastic and observant questions. Let me give you some short answers, and then we can discuss any followups you have! I'm going to answer out of order though.

2.
The first four digits are the product's item number, like the item numbers that LEGO fans use to refer to specific sets all the time.
4. ASST stands for Assortment. See next.
3. The second set of four digits are the assortment number - this refers to the case of 12 or 24 figures. So why is it different on the same figure? 5750 is Autobot Cars, and includes 1 Sunstreaker, 1 Sideswipe, 1 Hound, 2 Mirages, 1 Bluestreak, 1 Prowl, 1 Jazz, 1 Ironhide, 1 Ratchet, 1 Wheeljack, and 1 Trailbreaker. This case obviously shipped in 1984. Assortment 5766, however, is Autobot Cars Assortment 3, from 1985, which includes: 1 Sideswipe, 1 Hound, 1 Mirage, 1 Prowl, 1 Ironhide, 1 Wheeljack, 2 Smokescreens, 2 Infernos, and 2 Trackss. See what they did there? In this case, Mirage alone is the same item E5744, but he's now part of a different asst. - 5766. Also, the re-released older characters are one per case, while the new guys are 2 per. You'll also notice that figures who don't have any peers, like Shockwave, don't have an assortment number, because it was just 6 Shockwaves slapped in a case. It's important to remind that assortments are NOT waves... that came later.

1. This part is a little more apocryphal. The letter system started with E, then continued with F and G the following years. But it's not 1:1 letters and years like you might think, although all 1984 releases start with E... SOME 1985 releases also start with E, not F, including the Insecticons, Jetfire, and Shockwave. To make matters more confusing, while some 1985 figures start with G, most have no letter! And the letters disappear forever. So here's my unconfirmed theory:

All the toys with letters come from various pre-Transformer toylines like Diaclone, Microchange, Takatoku's Dorvack and Beetras, etc. The letters generally follow with first year of release. I believe that the letters indicate the year of intended release, or perhaps even "Christmas releases" of figures that were in stores just in time for Santa, depsite properly belonging to the following "model year" per the famous folding catalogs. This follows nicely with a couple other clues, such as Jetfire and Shockwave often including the 1984 catalogs and paperwork, Ultra Magnus sometimes including a 1985 catalog and the weird transitional "The Battle is Far from Over!" order form instead of 1985 'log and "Can One Boy, Alone, Stop the Evil Decepticons?"

This theory might give us other clues. If the letters only attach to toys designed for pre-Transformer lines, and Metroplex has a letter - was his design completed for Diaclone, and just cancelled to provide for the TF Autobot City? It's been known for a while that he was conceptualized for a Diaclone subgroup called Jizai Gattai (Free Combination), but perhaps it was farther along! After all, he's got the letter F for 1985 - indicating he could have been ready to ship during the last year Diaclone product was still trickling out to Japanese shops!

I need to get this all in a blog article sometime, but in the meantime, I've been working on adding release information to my individual figure articles on the G1 Collector's Guide. Here's all the info for Mirage, if you're interested.
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babycatlloyd
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Re: Box/Decals Reference Numbers

Post by babycatlloyd »

Thanks so much for the clarification and in-depth explanation, that really helps!
I'll definitely use the guides you provided as a resource.

I'm G1 era, so the concept of waves was new to me until a few months ago.

The lettering is very interesting I'll start digging into for myself as well, the consistency of inconsistencies was the biggest thing throwing me off. I certainly noticed them among my own collection, but I assume with a "composite" franchise like TF there's certainly plenty of room for errors in the format.

With your info, I certainly have a number of changes to make in my own catalogue. Would love to contribute to any data gathering! I've only been collecting for about half a year, but I've gathered a good-sized collection so far including a bunch of odd merchandise.

I'll definitely follow up with any additional questions here, thanks again for such a thorough explanation!
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Re: Box/Decals Reference Numbers

Post by Time Traveller »

No problem! I've actually been compiling a bunch of data on G1 releases, which I haven't really had time to publish here. G1's releases were fascinating in their complexity, especially with the added layers of international availability and variants. Since the whole toyline ended before anyone thought toys like this would be collectible, much less before the internet took off, I assume countless pieces of information were lost and forgotten that would be considered invaluable today. Look at Mattel's original MOTU line - to this day, no-one knows how "Wonder Bread/Savage He-Man" was distributed. We know that it was distributed, and we even know how to tell real ones from repaints on a regular He-Man, but even Mattel has said they're not sure.

When there are clues and breadcrumbs like the letter codes for G1 Transformers, it's fun to piece together a picture of what may have been, or might have been. But when a trail runs cold, boy, is it frustrating!
Here are some other mysteries, both solved and unsolved, that the community has grappled with over the years:

Bumblejumper
(specifically, see my thoughts in the Variants section)
Milton Bradley G1
Bob Budiansky says seeker tech specs stats were swapped
And my favorite personal conspiracy theory: Sunstreaker and Sideswipe were swapped. If you read the full Marvel Universe bio of Sideswipe, it describes him as having piledriver arms, TWO shoulder rockets, and the jetpack. Sure, we saw some of that in the 'toon. But Sunstreaker's says he has a rocket launcher on his RIGHT shoulder, and carries a pulse gun, and that his brother Sideswipe's looks are ruined by his rear-mounted engine. Obviously SUNstreaker is yellow and Sideswipe is red, though, right? Not until Hasbro they weren't! Sunstreaker's mold is so committed to being red, in fact, they didn't bother changing the color of the red stickers that cover the black plastic of the shoulder joint to blend into the red car body.

Since I'm plugging my own stuff and you're interested in the finer points of G1 toy collecting, you might enjoy my Diaclone catalog translation series (click ">>Read More") ;)
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babycatlloyd
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Re: Box/Decals Reference Numbers

Post by babycatlloyd »

Agreed! I've really been enjoying the deep dives into the franchise whether that's publication, marketing, or trademarking and acquisitions..

It's funny that you mention the WonderBread He-Man, I saw one just a few weeks ago but it's not a franchise I followed.

I'm aware of the Bumblejumper and Sideswipe/Sunstreaker issues (I have the Diaclone in Red), the Milton Bradley G1's sounds familiar but I can't be sure. Regardless, you opened up a wormhole for me with that one. I'll definitely make my way through your info. I've been really enjoying the community and hunting everything down.
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