Vintage or reissue?

Jose · Post by **Jose** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:38 pm

I came with this question at my country and most people think that a reissue is better. They are cheaper, they come boxed, the come complete and they come in mint condition, when it's not the case, they are way cheaper.
Also the appear of reissues has drop the prices for most figures (except Op and the Megster), because the figure is produced again.
I also collect die-cast cars. In that field, the reissue can't do anything to decrease the vintage model's value. Maybe that's the reason I prefer vintage figures, the years are worthy for me.
Anyway, this is just my particular opinion, what think other TF fans?

Post by **trance** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:29 pm

As a seller of vintage G1's, the re-issues have been a major bummer. And when people are looking to sell their vintage G1's to me, they still expect to get top dollar, like what they would see in the price guide. So I have just stopped buying anything vintage that has been re-issued.

It's weird, re-issues are not uncommon (GI Joe, Star Wars, etc.) but in each of these lines, there is some major difference. G2 is a good example...the figures were re-issued, but there were major differences--molding difference and color differences. The new re-issues are practically identical to the originals, and while I think it may be good for TF fans in the short term, it will do damage in the long run. It takes the fun out of collecting when you can just find anything anywhere like anyone else. And why keep it in the box, or even in good condition, when you just know every 10th annaversary they'll just re-issue them again.

I remember when it was saying something when you had a Godginrai giftset, but now, who cares, right?

Just my opinion

10incher · Post by **10incher** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:28 pm

Reissues don't bother me as it is still not like owning the original thing. I don't think it should effect G1 Transformer prices, because it is the nostalgia that gives it its value. My only worry would be getting scammed on a trade or on Ebay with a reissue.

KMMA1978 · Post by **KMMA1978** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 1:55 am

Original is always better. Eevn thugoh they may re-isuse smoethnig there is somethnig to be said about originals.
Trance brought up the point of there was a time when you would say," I have a complete Optimus Prime" ment something and now it like who care, but it is still something when someone says, "I have an complete Original Optimus Prime". Because when you say you have an original it brings you to the 84/85 not to a reissue in 2003.

Ravage · Post by **Ravage** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:03 am

I agree, its best having the original, but on the other its its not so "sexy" thinking about some kid having had your used OP in his mouth or held it in grubby dirty little fingers. Thats why I prefer reissues. They are mint condition. And besides they usually are somewhat cheaper than throwing your money away on e-bay, paying through the nose.

Post by **Time Traveller** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 1:33 am

used toys? a gentle scrubbing with light duty fantastic, careful not to spray directly on decals, cleans, sanitizes, and give tfs a lemon fresh scent. being born after the age of glory, i acquired my massive g1 collection through garage saling and other means.
these reissues are BLASPHEMY! blanderdash, i tell you! i can sift through pages and pages on ebay and not find a single ORIGINAL jazz! those reissue knockoff gift sets are equally as bothersome.

Jose · Post by **Jose** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 10:21 pm

When I posted the first message, I hadn't thought about the fake matter. That's another problem where thee reissues are to make damage.

Challoner · Post by **Challoner** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 7:46 pm

The truly valuable TF will be the ones stamped with purely "Hasbro 1985" on their bumcheeks. The new ones I presume are dated at 2002 (or 1991 depending if you mean the 'classics') so wont ever gather the same collectors value. Personally I see them as something of a godsend, it means I can get replacement parts reasonably cheap and it kills the market for a few years. Wise heads will invest now whilst it's "dead" and reasonably cheap.

Post by **Time Traveller** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:20 am

wait... transformers have cheeks? Yes, the slight depression, or even leveling off of the "diaclone cars" will be a welcome sight to will-be-destitute-college-students like me. i've noticed that of all TFs, the original autobot cars and decep jets prices have been on an uncomfortably steep rise. however, i'd rather have a figure be missing a part or two until i find originals and have it be all-original. reissues aren't on my agenda, unless it is something that is unavailable to the us market (except for exorbitantly priced imports)

Challoner · Post by **Challoner** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:07 pm

The worst bit about the re-issues is all the HK residents on Ebay selling them for Â£14 ($23) plus Â£20 shipping ($37)....they make more profit from the shipping that they do from the toy itself. Actually, the worst one is the "neon lights". They invariably sell now for 1p (or cent) and they make Â£30 from shipping, for what is effectively a Â£5 cheap effect.

JoePerry · Post by **JoePerry** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:13 am

Flooding the market with new toys or re-released toys has killed the demand for the three major toy lines of our time. Star Wars toys have been dead for years because of what was done in the late 90's with Hasbro/Kenner. G.I. Joe has had a drop off because of the new figures. Now, Transformers are getting mass produced - and unlike Star Wars and G.I. Joe, the transformers are almost exact replicas.

This type of thing does have a negative long term affect on the figure lines. In the 90's Comic Book collecting boomed, everyone was buying up polybagged, varient covers, and multiple issues. So many collecters wouldn't even read them "because they were too valuable". But, when everyone kept thier collections in mint condition where was the demand? The price of comics was based upon the fact that copies were rare to find, especially in good condition... I remember my buddy bought 40 copies of "The Death of Superman". Oh boy. So did everyone else...

Now look at the state of rebuilding that the Comic book industry has been working on for the past 10 years.

People will keep thier "new" transformers in the box, or loose but with all thier parts because they think that they will be worth money "someday". But unless there is a rarety or high percentage of incomplete or broken figures, there will be no secondary market.

Thankfully, people like us exist and don't want to settle for the re-issues. I want the exact figures I saw as a child, new toys just don't hold any magic for me (unless it is Unicron

) . I guess this is a Windfall in that I can afford to buy a lot of figures that I couldn't have a few years ago, but it doesn't seem right...

Oh and there is the sellers on e-bay who market the re-issue figures as "G1 Originals!". And, yes, they are from the first gen of TF, and they are the original characters, but they are not the vintage figures as they are trying to lead people to believe

Best,
Joe

Challoner · Post by **Challoner** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:16 pm

Aye, with regards to Star Wars - the reason they were so collectable is that no-one in 1980 truly had any idea how cheap plastic toys their kids tossed around for a few years would garner any kind of value. Come the Episode1 stuff and there were Japanese guys shown on TV buying 3 or 4 of everything produced, a couple for storage and 1 for display.

The "limited re-issue" idea is one way around the value thing. If they'd restricted it to say 100 remakes of each model then the value of those would be extremely high (and make them much sought after). But when you see people on E-Bay listing the plastic resin 'Galvatron Energon' limited to 50pcs, from Botcon'97 with a minimum reserve of Â£500 and a buy it now of Â£699 you realise just how deluded people can get.

Post by **Time Traveller** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:14 pm

deluded? are yo[u kidding? i got a vintage reissue jazz on ebay for only $550! j/k... i don't know man, i don't like this situation at all. but to each their own i guess. i think the whole thing is just a hasbro ploy to get more for less. it's like coming out with a new figure casting, and then recoloring it and occasionally renaming it 5 times before a year has passed. universe is a prime example.

Challoner · Post by **Challoner** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:54 pm

I'd prefer genuine attempts to make high quality updates of the originals (i.e. Alternators) than the endless re-issue's and completely out of synch creations of Universe and Co.

Post by **Time Traveller** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:41 am

amen to that. i'd love to see the original 27 all alternatorized, unfortunately the decepticons had to go and be inconsistent with the automobile trend. that's why they should put US in charge.

Aanallein · Post by **Aanallein** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:08 am

The again if they put you in charge TT you'd more than likely have done the same thing. As far as these companies go they are trying to milk the product as much as possible. They want as much money from these things as possible.

On the topic of vintage or reissue, just look at the two words. Vintage sounds so rich and formal. I pick that one.

Challoner · Post by **Challoner** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:08 pm

Nah, if I'd have been in there position I'd have realised in 1989 that the 6 to 14 year olds of 1985 were now 10 to 18 and thus produced products that both catered to the kids and also the more mature (and therefore wealthy) students. Instead of kiddifying everything and producing cheap plastic chunks of TF I'd have focused on making high quality diecasts (or at least large percentage diecasts a la Optimus Prime).

When you're flogging a totally plastic toy for Â£10 more than you ever sold the hunk of metal that was Optimus (with little to no 'bonus' in the way of flashing lights, whistles etc) you're going to lose out. TF alienated itself as a result.

"The Real Ghostbusters" did the same. Produced high quality plastic figures - then started flooding the market with recolours and occasional 'changes' and cheap additions.

S'not good business.

Post by **Time Traveller** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:47 pm

the problem is corporate minded people producing collector products. corporate minded people do great producing corporation industrial products, but for producing collector minded products, you have to have at least a few collector minded people advising the top floor. unfortunately, many of the original design people left in the mid nineties, and a bunch of young'uns took over. the problem is these young'uns knew all about marketing and business, but not a single thing about transformers. it is only because the sway that some of us 'original' collecter-types hold that these new innovations of old characters are arising, such as the much-hailed alternators and the masterpiece prime.
and yes. vintage does sound better than reissue.

Aanallein · Post by **Aanallein** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:04 pm

I'm glad you agree with my choice of words TT

As for Challoner, young kids are the best marketing target. I mean, if you have or seen a 6 year old kid, they can make life a living hell if they are not given what they want. They'll beg and plead for the new Transformer! That is, if the marketing is done right.

So for these new people who are in power creating a bunch of new cool stuff [in terms of six year olds] the object is to get a new generation stuck into the fix. But not for a prolonged period, but for the four years they may play with the toy then move on.

A lot of parents are like... "Hey, I remember those toys when i was little. Let's get jonny a new Transformer." So bam. Buys jonny a toy.

Vintage makes it sound like a fine wine though. That is why it is better than reissue.

Post by **Time Traveller** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:46 pm

most original transfans haven't got big families yet. so they'll make that big push later. but seriously, think of it this way. you have $50. do you:
A) buy a cartload of "flogged" universe tfs or
B) buy a complete ORIGINAL 1984 release sideswipe?
i think this choice should be obvious. the reason i picked a 1984 transformer is because the 84's were pre rubsign, so there were abosolutely no gimmicks on the toy to make it sell. and it is still a really cool toy, and higher quality due to metal pin construction, diecast parts, and rubber tires.