What would it take for you to buy a Counterfeit TF?

[Time Traveller]

As we all know, counterfeit TFs have been causing a stir in the high-end markets, especially non-reissued, boxed TFs. AFA has been caught up a couple times grading them as legitimate. They're coming out with a G1 Scorponok soon. We just discussed Springer (an expensive G1er in his own right) in another thread.

Do you own any KO TFs? Are they boxed, or loose?

I'm guessing the proportion that don't own currently is larger. What would it take for you to buy a counterfeit? What character would they have to make, or price point would they have to hit? Would you buy a loose counterfeit, or would it have to be MISB?

For my own part, there are a few I'd seriously consider buying.

G2 Electro. I would deeply consider spending a lot of money for an Electro that I could actually display and transform, even if it wasn't legit. Slingshot to a lesser degree, but I can always paint up a G1.

Raiden. I've wanted one since I only knew him by name from a fanclub newsletter I got in the early 90's. Every time I get a new job or enter a new financial stage in my life, it seems like his price has doubled since I last looked, staying perpetually out of reach. If a KO came on the market for $100-150, I'd probably snag it just to play and display. I might even destroy the KO packaging to prevent someone unscrupulous from trying to legitimize it someday, but I really want to display a Raiden across from Devastator someday.

G1 Unicron. Yes, the unreleased Hasbro prototype. These guys have stolen or reverse-engineered every other mold Hasbro can't or won't reissue (perhaps because their molds have gone missing... to the KOers!), so is Unicron too much to ask? They could load him up with modern electronics and Orson Welles's voice. Or not. Whatever, I'd still buy one.

[LD2062]

I have no problem owning counterfeits or reissues. So long as I know they are.

Especially since I like them loose so I can transform them or pose them.

Genuine and vintage is nice but I don't pay any premium for that. I'd be more than willing to sell or trade that for more newer figures.

My issue with owning KOs and counterfeits is quality. Since I like to use my stuff I don't want something thats going to break on me.

[Jose]

I voted "I own at least one". Fortunately, they are very easy to tell, so in case my collection goes somewhere else, nobody will get ripped. I have though, certain guidelines: It has to be interesting on itself. Therefore, I am actually chasing the old Kingdam KOs. I have a green Blitzwing, I am suspicious it comes from that make, and it's a nice figure: Heavy, Diaclone stickers... Has even more metal than a Takara Blitzwing, but sloppy paint on face. Hence, I consider it a toy worth looking, no matter if it's trying to mimic another. Another is the blue Bluestreak. I painted a beater myself, and no way you can confuse it, but it fills the gap alright. I also have an oversized F1 Dasher. No idea who made it, but also, you can't pass it as original, and is different enough. There are others... Like fake Browning (I have a real one with blue feet), fake Soundwave, KD Dia Battles, alt. color Gats Blocker... The list goes on and on.

The only counterfeit I would consider getting to fill straight for the original is Raiden. An original is just too expensive for me.

[Dinobot]

I dont mind owning ones that I know i'll never have the money for such as the dino cassettes. I have both of them and only paid $25 a piece. The value of the real ones is outrageous. So in that case I consider it to be a good idea as long as they arent piles of crap.

[Roadbuster]

I would take a KO Overlord. Any day, any time. Probably the only G1 figure I really, really want at this point in time.

[Countdown]

I have a KO Collector's Club Counterpunch. I don't believe I will actually get a legit one in my price range in the next several years. I bit the bullet a while ago and picked him up. He isn't the shining star of my collection but he fills in nicely for the real thing. As long as I don't touch him. He's a placeholder.

I firmly believe that no one who owns a legit Transformer would confuse the KO Counterpunch for the real thing. It feels cheap. The joints are odd (as if there is still flash inside). It can barely stand. It feels cheap (did I say that yet?). The weapons don't mount in vehicle mode. The transformation locks up (once again as if there is flash inside getting in the way of the transformation). He just doesn't feel right.

Oh, and Roadbuster - I have a KO Overlord. He isn't as grand as I would like him to be as he is bright red and yellow (and a little short). But, he is Overlord. (And, fun!)

Now that I think about it having a KO as a placeholder doesn't work for me as it just disappoints me when I compare them to the real thing - also it sort of scares me that I might not realize how close KOs are getting to the real legit thing. Having a small red and yellow ko that is fun. That works for me.

[Roadbuster]

Oh, and Roadbuster - I have a KO Overlord. He isn't as grand as I would like him to be as he is bright red and yellow (and a little short). But, he is Overlord. (And, fun!)

I forgot about that figure! Yeah, it'd have to match the G1 colors for me to consider. I've got an airbrush gun and some paint but would be worried about the plastic grade holding up, that or shredding a screw housing while disassembling a KO.

[Ultra Magnus]

Do KO CHUG Sunstorms count?

I did find a high quality yellow with black tires/treads G1 Construticon set that I absolutely adore. The green and purple always bugged me.

[Time Traveller]

Very interesting range of responses, guys! I guess I was mostly referring to figures that are clearly trying to imitate legitimate (expensive) toys. There have been KO's in odd colors and sizes since the early days, with strange items such as the Winged Sludge (Prontosaurus [sic] according to its box) that have become highly collectible.

A couple of you have touched on this already, but how do the rest of you feel about the highly-accurate counterfeits such as Zhong Jin?

As for good old-fashioned KOs (that have major differences from the Has/Tak release), I do keep a King Dam Browning. I just saw a real one sell for around $1k on eBay, so I think Mr. Dam will be hanging around for a while.

[LD2062]

I have a problem with people getting ripped off by counterfeits and their general effect on the value of vintage figures.

But as far as owning something personally. Like I said the price and quality of the figure are all that matters. I don't care about vintage or official. If KO company makes the exact quality for half the price thats what I'd buy.

Not that I really need to buy ko with all the reissues, and since I prefer loose even vintage aren't that expensive, since I also don't care about complete.

Besides I think the universe/generations/classics line are the best figure for most of the g1 characters, barring some of the really expensive 3rd party figures.

[Countdown]

I don't mind having high quality KOs that stand in for Original Hasbro (or other company) toys. However, I want packaging clearly marked that it is not an original figure. I am firmly against KOs on the open market being sold as original figures. It's not right and it shouldn't happen.

I also prefer markings of some sort on the figure to further dispel the illusion that the high quality KOs are legitimate.

My TFCC KO Counterpunch packaging is clearly marked that it is a KO despite the marketing of it as a TFCC figure.

[Jose]

I don't like fakes to deceive people, but I've always seen it more as a matter of the person who decides to pass it on as an original.

Nowadays those fakes are so close to the real thing, that it's very hard to distinguish them from the originals, even in hand. That's something I don't like either - I see collecting as a challenge, too -, but there isn't too much to do to stop it anyway.