What would you like to see in a TF videogame?

[ismellicecream]

As some of you might know, I work as a game designer, and obviously I am also a massive TF fan. Annoyed at the lack of quality TF games available, I've decided to make my own, in my free time, for fun. (fun does not mean I will treat it any differently than a professional project though)

I will be using the Unreal Engine, but bear in mind I am at early planning stages and have limited free time, so its gonna be a slow burner.

So I want to know what you want in a game?

Sandbox or strictly linear? (bear in mind most sandbox games are bland because they dont need to be sandbox).

G1? Sticking to G1 would make it cartoony whereas the movie line could be realistic, or would you prefer a stylised approach that combines both, or possibly unique?

Transformations - simple button press or more intricate, part of the gameplay mechanic?

Player - An existing character or a unique character that can be customised and upgraded?

More questions will undoubtedly rise, these are just my initial thoughts. Any feedback or suggestions about anything more than welcome.

[The Last Autobot]

Here is what I see as the perfect TF game. It's an open world epic where you can choose to play as any TF (from a predetermined cast) when you want. It'd be a G1 type game so you could get like Targetmaster upgrades. You can get various weapons. Also, there are two open world areas. Earth and Cybertron. You can transport between whichever one you need to be at. I also think an insane feature would be to have a feature where you can create and customize your very own TF. Dunno how you'd do that though.....as for transforming it should be a quick button press. I think if you had those elements it'd pwn.

[Catalyst Prime]

I posted my ideas at on this at TFarchive.

But I like the Idea of a sandbox style tf game that has upgradable custom characters.

Last Autobots Idea of being able to go from earth to cybertron sounds good two. If it could work you could add others like Nebulos, Planet Master, ect... Of course this also depends on era.

Also I like the Unreal engine. It's got great mechanics for a game like this.

As for transformations they should be one easy button. unless maybe for gestalts,combiners, triplechangers, ect... that maybe have a combination of buttons.

[ismellicecream]

The problem with having two worlds is doubling my workload lol. I'm designing this alone for now, apart from everyones input here and at tfarchive. An important thing for me is to make the bots feel big - other tf games feel like you're a human sized bot in a miniature city.

I'm hoping to get the game up and running with the rules and mechanics, then hand it over to the community to build and design their own expansions. It could end up being an MMO, but thats beyond my intentions, at least for now.

[Blaster]

I would like to see a game based on G1 characters. I understand the workload of two worlds if thats too much how about an area of the desert like the G1 toons have the autobots in one corner and the decepticons in the other. almos similar to Fallout 3. Have to be able to upgrade characters and maybe start with three characters and unlock the real good ones (grimlock, optimus, shockwave, megatron).

I would love that but it would still be neat if it was a street fighter or mortal kombay style game at least to start out with. That would be pretty neat I think. Even if it was just 2d like the old street fighter games. Blasters finish move would be releasing all cassettes "BRUTALITY"!! lol.

I would just be excited to see about anything with G1 characters I was really disappointed with the first game when they say G1 characters all they really meant was colors.

[S0und_wave]

A game where you can play as all the G1 characters with fun game play and online .

[ismellicecream]

Some good ideas - Once I have a good library of useable characters it would probably be fairly easy to make a MK fighter - doesnt leave much use for the vehicle modes, other than using them as a special move. You never know more people might want that than any other genre - thats why I'm asking you guys - I want to build a foundation of a fan game for the fans that can be built upon.

Which leads to my next question, which I also just asked on tfarchive - for the purposes of getting a prototype I want to use a character with a car mode, so I'll ask you guys to choose - the one with the most votes I'll start building, if not many people bother then I'll just pick my fave out of all suggested.

[Time Traveller]

My thoughts: Custom character, with upgrades available. The problem is that classic transformers are not designed to be standalone warriors, or balanced. not to mention modeling and designing enough of the original characters to please everyone who wants to play their favorite would be insane.
Maybe use the classic characters as npc or storyline advancers.
Also, transforming for transformers is as easy as moving... I actually like what the movie 07 pc game did with this: scroll wheel. it should be as simple as any other basic moving like running or jumping. besides. if i have to take time to transform my robot, I'll go get one off my shelf.

as for the car mode of your first,

how about a mercedes G4 offoroad:





That, or a 69 AMC Javelin.

[ismellicecream]

I am probably going with the custom character. My intention is to get a few characters implemented, then hopefully have enough of a framework to get a community involved, which will expand missions, characters etc.

Here are my posts collated from tfarchive so far, you should get the jist of what people are saying by my responses:

1

So you like open world sandbox play? (GTA style)

The concern I have with that is that if you are running around a city as a bot then civilians will see you - in which case the need to transform is eliminated. Unless a gameplay mechanic could be stealth, i.e. get to your objective but dont be seen in bot mode.

I want to really capture the essence of the TF's - moving relatively unnoticed in human society.

2

Yeah, I was thinking of maybe using the whole ark/mount st helens setting, which would give a nice mix of population density.

I was thinking along similar lines for character creation too. Good call. cheers. keep your ideas and feedback coming - I really value input for every aspect.

3

Thanks for all your feedback guys.

To answer:

The world could be as big as I can make it - I can split the map and have a buffer to load the next section while you play - thats how most large scale sandbox games do it.

I like the idea of starting as a protoform and you can earn upgrades that allow you better alt modes. Good call on the triple changer - I never thought of that.

A faction system can work well, but two factions (bots and cons) seriously outweigh any other potential factions. This could be troublesome for balancing.

Sky missions - cool.

Gaining trust with humans - good idea, might help with making the faction system work.

No plans for the weapons yet - anything in mind?

Playing as a human would be good but could be problematic to implement - definately worth exploring though - make me think of the comic cover where jazz is standing by the trees.

Cassettes would work if the human thing works.

Cheers guys, some good stuff. I'll start working on a prelimnary doc soon and run it by you all. Meanwhile keep firing ideas at me.

EDIT: Speaking of factions, would you prefer to be able to choose sides, or just start as an autobot?

4

I've been thinking a bit - For simplicity the player will play as one, upgradable character. Overcomplicating things is always a bad idea.

I mentioned setting it near and around mount st helens - I dont know much about US geography, but mount st hilary was supposed to be in oregon whereas st helens near to oregon and washington?? What is the geography of the area like? are there any populated areas close by (close as in game map close, not 50 miles of pointless travelling), also any interesting landmarks close by?

I could completely fabricate the map, even base it on the g1 map, but having existing geography saves a lot of time, there is data I can access to get things rolling - google earth, terrain height data, etc.

5

I agree, but like all the ideas input, I'll go with the majority.

I was thinking on focusing on some of the G1's that have been neglected recently - Sunstreaker, Wheeljack etc.

Also, if we are going for G1, do you guys agree that the minibots should be scaled up to match the rest?

One more thing - pick a character I can use for building a prototype - a car would be easiest for me - have a mini vote.

Okay, for initial prototype will give them built in weaponry - the usual primary and secondary. I will look into melee too, but that might have to follow much later.

Minions - a good idea but again, that will go on the backburner for now.

No reason why all characters cant be playable really, make some good multiplayer deathmatches. The upgradable protoform will work best in the single player campaign.

For factions I was thinking of the game starting when the ark is revived (1984) and the player character could be a tf so badly damaged that only his basic functions are revived i.e. movement and thought - he is unrecognisable at that point to factions and has no memories.

Mass shifting could be a problem - generally in games with multiple player selections they all have to be the same scale for the underlying animation skeleton to function properly. Might be able to do something with mass shifting at the cost of them being AI only.

I'll take that as one vote for prowl.

6

But then there would be conflict in size between vehicle modes, which would look wrong when setting the scale of the environment, certainly urban areas. I think for now if I stick to the tf's that have consistent scale then I can spend less time worrying about problems, but carry on thinking of solutions if you can.

I am thinking of having the map have the ark/volcano as the central hub, then the surrounding areas can be divided between city, residential, natural and so on. Rather than setting it strictly real world, I'll just do a mashup of various areas.

7

For the time being, and certainly for prototyping, the characters will have their standard issue blasters and some basic melee. As things move along I hope to give them secondary weapons, more powerful but less frequent use. I wont be implementing it from the start but I will certainly be setting up the framework to allow it at a later date.

Which leads me to this:

Once I get up and running I am going to need help - so if anyone is skilled in such things as 3d modelling, animation or whatnot then give me a shout. But only if you have the skills to produce something to decent quality using correct techniques. I dont want to sound patronising but I see a lot of models that aspiring developers build that arent up to scratch - not a reflection of their talent, just because they are beginners. I'm sure there are other things I can find for people to help with eventually too, but no offers to write a story or anything like that - storyline is the least important thing right now. Maybe when there is something up and running you guys can contribute missions ideas and so on.

END OF POSTS

Its seems the preference is a button press transformation so I'll go with that.

Thats a nice car, but I want to go with a G1 bot for the initial prototype, because I have an existing robot mode to work with, plus its recogisable for fans, to get them encouraged.

Cheers for your input, keep it coming.

[The Last Autobot]

In reponse to the waking up with no memories, that could be cool. Make it like KOTOR or Fable where every action determines what side you fight for.

[Blaster]

as far as solid modeling I am an engineer and good with autodesk inventor and solid works. I work with both but for this project as of right now I don't have that kind of access to them. I also work mainly with mechanical stuff but I am confident I could help

[ismellicecream]

Thanks for offering mate. As I said its gonna be a slow burner so whenever you can help, I'm sure there will be plenty to do. Dont forget there are free modelling programs like 'blender' which are equally as good as the big packages.

[Rhymus]

You still working on this? Am i too late to put in a few thoughts?

i wrote a response to this, and it was LONG... so i thought i'd try to summarize it in a short post, and then post the long version if you want more detail.

The most important thing is that the game is fun, but that's probably assumed to be a given, and all of my requests and recommendations are for things that i think will help make the game fun.

TOP priority: The player's character has to be able to transform.

Concurrent TOP priority: Being able to transform the player character has to be relevant to the gameplay. (For example, maybe Arcee is faster in car mode, but can aim her guns better in robot mode.)

Next biggest priority: Multiplayer option, preferably online so a LOT of players can get in on one joint game.

Next biggest recommendation: Sandbox. i think. Assuming that means what i think it does. More detail in long post.

Next biggest request: A simpler single-player version for people with slower computers and/or slower Internet connections.

Next biggest request: Several alternate modes to choose from. Not like Triple Changers (except maybe as an upgrade the player can earn), but just different character types with different strengths and different weaknesses (the fast, lightly-armed and lightly-armored racer; the slow but powerful tank; the jet; the beast mode; etc.).

Recommendation: Regardless of what character/alt-mode the player chooses, let the player choose what faction they want to be on.

Recommendation: Start with non-canon Transformers. More detail in long post.

Recommendation: Let the player type in whatever name they want for their character.

Minor suggestion: Let the player choose what color to make their character.

Medium priority: Continuity?

Medium priority: Ways to upgrade/customize your character?

Optional: Earth and Cybertron.

Optional: Combiners?

[Rhymus]

i wrote and rewrote and tweaked this a number of times, trying to make it as useful and easy-to-understand as i could, but i've basically given up. i hope this all makes sense and you find some of my ideas helpful and/or intriguing.

TOP priority: The player's character has to be able to transform.

Concurrent TOP priority: Being able to transform the player character has to be relevant to the gameplay. (For example, maybe Arcee is faster in car mode, but can aim her guns better in robot mode.)

My next biggest priority would be multiplayer option, preferably online so you can get a LOT of players interacting with each other, making alliances, choosing sides (and maybe not just limited to two or three factions! players can make up their own... if they convince anybody to join up with them!), trading information (intel and war stories and advice and so on), and, of course, in true Transformers fashion, jockeying for position, with the ever-present possibility of betrayal...

(Actually, to tell the truth, i like stories about the Dinobots'/Grimlock's/Slag's rebelliousness, and Starscream and Shockwave and others trying to overthrow Megatron, while Soundwave is loyal to Megatron but blackmails everyone else to stay as high up in Megatron's hierarchy as possible, and stuff like that... but i'd rather not have that in the game while i was playing. But i'd like to have the option of doing so, and i bet it would be a good selling point, too. How easy would it be to program the game so that you could choose a room/server/whatever based on, for example, whether or not characters must declare a faction, and whether or not they would be able to hurt others of the same faction? i must confess, i haven't been able to play any MMOs, so i don't know how much backstabbing actually already happens in games like World of Warcraft, Dungeons & Dragons Online, etc.)

i'm not sure what you mean by "sandbox", but if it means what i think it means, i'd prefer that--players can go anywhere, do whatever they want; there are missions to complete, but IF they bother with them, there's more than one way to achieve the objective (such as, if the objective requires you to enter a certain building, you can do so by opening the door, crashing through the window, picking up a convenient truck and throwing it through the wall, or blasting a hole in the roof).

That said, i'd also request single-player version of the game, perhaps less complex and more linear, so that people with slower computers or slower Internet connections can still play. The less complex single-player version doesn't mean more work on your part, though; instead of making it an entirely separate version of the game, you can make it part of the MMO game. It would also serve as an intermediate stage, where the full game is not finished, but the portion you have finished works as its own game, if that makes sense. Plus, by programming lower-resolution images, less complex transformations, etc., stuff that would make the game more accessible to slower computers or slower Internet connections, you could also use to test your programming. For example, "Would this character be able to move the way I want in robot mode if he transformed like this?" If yes, "Great! I can start rendering him with that flame deco I really wanted." If no, "Good thing I didn't waste all that time getting the racing stripes just right--I'd just have to redo them after I adjust the way he transforms! Now, if that part attaches to the arm instead of the leg, he should be able to bend his knees..."

Next most important thing, i think, would be having different playable characters--particularly with different types of alternate mode, so the player can decide how they want to play the game. Someone who transforms into a sports car is fast and agile and small enough to get places that someone who transforms into a fast, agile fighter jet can't, but the fast, agile fighter jet can fly and is more heavily armed. Someone who transforms into a tank is even more heavily armed, but slower, and can't fly. Someone who transforms into a truck is faster than the tank Transformer but with less strength and endurance than the tank, slower than the sports car but with greater strength and endurance than the sports car, and small enough to get places the tank and jet can't, but unable to fly like a jet. The helicopter is like a truck that can fly, only with less strength and endurance, but possibly more firepower. Only boats, submarines, and certain beast modes can do anything on or under water--boats are faster than subs, but can't submerge... Etc., etc.

Something i think you could program easily and please a lot of players would be the option to choose which faction to make their character. Just because the canon character who looks like that is one faction, doesn't mean the player's character can't be a lookalike fan character belonging to some other faction. (Besides, a number of canon characters have switched sides and/or been redecoed as new characters belonging to the opposite factions as the original characters.)

A recommendation to (hopefully) make your life easier: Start with generic Transformers. That way, 1) it's easier for players to decide whether they want to pretend it's a canon character or they want to repurpose it as their own fan-made character, and 2) you will have more experience with programming Transformers characters when you get around to making cherished canon characters, so you don't get complaints like, "Why didn't you program Starscream to move as smoothly as you programmed that Ferrari to? Starscream is an official character; he deserves to be programmed at least as well as some made-up guy!"

Aside: When i was composing this in my head, but before i actually got around to typing it up, i got an idea for an example of a generic you could use: a red Porsche who transforms the same way as G1 Sunstreaker. Players can pretend the character is an upgraded version of Sunstreaker (same transformation as Sunstreaker, in "his" Diaclone colors), Sideswipe (same colors and similar transformation to his Alternator), Jazz (a combination of G1 Jazz's Porsche alt-mode and the color of Alternators red Meister), Cliffjumper (a red Porsche, un-superdeformed), Wheeljack (still a sports car, and based on "his" Diaclone Marlboro redeco) ...OR any character they want to make up and repurpose the red Porsche as.

That gives me another idea, and one that should be easy for someone of your skills, and save you a LOT of grief from fans: Let the player type in whatever name they want for any playable character(s) they control, including canon characters. "His name is 'Silverstreak'!" / "No, it's 'Bluestreak'!" / "But he doesn't have any blue on him!" / "I thought he was just called 'Streak'...?" / "Well, I want to pretend he's Prowl." / "I never watched G1, but that's exactly what I want this character I made up to look like. I call him 'Smokescreen'!" / "...You're kidding about never watching G1, right?" / "No, why?" / "It's 'Bluestreak'!"

Another customize-your-character trick, but i don't know how easy this is to program: i seem to remember that some games, like "Street Fighter" and "Mortal Kombat", let you choose what main color to make your character's outfit? Like, you couldn't change the color of all the details, but you could choose what color most of the character's outfit was. So, say you have a Starscream character programmed--the player couldn't say, "I want a Seeker with a green jet mode with, like, black lightning bolts all over him, and a blood-red skull-and-crossbones on each wing, with dark blue wingtips and medium blue fists and shinguards, and--" ...but the player could get a green Seeker, just without the lightning bolts and stuff.

i might recommend that you very deliberately decide how closely you want to adhere to any given continuity. i've mostly been talking about G1, simply because that's what i know best, but a lot of other continuities have a lot of cool characters--or at least body-types. You'll also want to consider the preferences of your target audience/market--old school Geewun folks, Michael Bay's fan club, the "I don't care which continuity it comes from as long as it looks cool" crowd, the "G1 homages are even better than G1" people, casual fans who can't tell or don't care about the difference between the continuities... You'll also have to consider what makes sense in an ambiguous crossover continuity--Mini-Cons aren't going to help Bumblebee very much, without any place to Powerlinx!

Some ideas about ways for a player to upgrade/customize their character: Stronger weapons, more ammo capacity, "more" armor, increased speed, and improved fuel efficiency come to mind as a few ways to upgrade a character without having to change the character model, but some players might want more. Maybe add-on weapons, especially shoulder-mounted missile launchers and cannons, could be the first, simplest upgrade that would require editing the character model; maybe enhancements to the alternate mode instead of the robot mode would be about on par with that. The next step--entirely replacing the alternate mode with something similar but better (like old Camaro Bumblebee vs. new Camaro Bumblebee in the 2007 live-action film)--would be a significant step beyond those "simple" add-ons. Even further would be modification into a Triple Changer, but man would that be an order of magnitude increase in what you would have to program into the game!

You mentioned how the scale of the cityscapes, etc. is off in the TF games you've played, and you mentioned that featuring both Earth and Cybertron would double your workload. Respectfully, i'm not sure that having both worlds would increase how much work you had to do--seems to me you could just, for example, instead of mapping two square miles of Oregon, map one square mile of Oregon and one square mile of Iacon. But i'm not a programmer; maybe i'm overlooking something obvious. However, if you do manage to include scenes on both planets, i think you could address the scale issue in interesting ways--because on Earth, the Transformers would be, what, a couple of stories tall? whereas on Cybertron, of course they're less than a single story tall, because the buildings are designed for them.

An interesting game idea that might be REALLY hard to program (or play, for that matter) would be if certain player characters--controlled by separate players--could combine with each other. First you'd have to find characters you could combine with--someone shaped like CRiD Railspike would only have to find two others, but they would HAVE to be shaped like Midnight Express and Rapid Run, whereas someone shaped like Scattershot would have to find twice as many, but they could be shaped like any of the smaller Technobots, Aerialbots, Protectobots... even any of the smaller Stunticons, Seacons, etc., since players can choose their own factions independent of who the character models resemble... plus, unlike the three trains, the Scramble City combiners could combine even if two or more of the smaller members were the same shape. But then, even if someone finds other players to combine with, they have to agree to combine, and then figure out how to work together. Say Scattershot combines with Blades (right arm), Strafe (left arm), Fireflight (right leg), and FyreFlyteFTW (left leg). Only Scattershot and Fireflight have to agree to take a step forward with the right leg, but together, Blades, Strafe, and FyreFlyteFTW can overrule that gesture. Blades can throw a right jab without confirming it with anybody, unless Scattershot has a default "stand down" order in place, which Blades could only override if one of the other limbs helped (two of the other limbs, if Scattershot has one of them help him enforce the "stand down" order)... i don't know HOW Energon Powerlinx duos would work, without a third player/character to act as tiebreaker when there was a disagreement about how/when to act...

Okay, that's all i've got for you... for now. i know this game has to take a backseat to your real life--eating, sleeping, earning a living, whatever--but i still want to say thanks for working on this game, and thanks for asking other TransFans for input. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

[Dirge]

the mind boggles ........

[Time Traveller]

Ah, STARS. I've missed having you around. Dirge, you weren't here yet, but STARS and i used to have conversations that would last pages upon pages like this.

[Dirge]

* scratches head *

* opens cockpit and gets out a dictionary *

I could learn something then ...