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 Post subject: A New President
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:41 pm 
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Here's my thoughts for the times....

First off, I'd like to say I am not into politics. I can't trust a polititian at all.
I would trust a Quintesson before I would fully trust any polititian.

With that said, I (for the first time) watched along with millions of people around the world the Inaugeration of our new USA President, Obama.
It was recorded that it was the biggest Inaugeration since the 1960's
Nearly 2 million people showed up for the event.

I sat in the conforts of my living room and watched it on TV.
And I must say, I was at the edge of my seat when I heard Obama's speech.
It was very strong and forward.
I honestly felt like a heavy blanket was lifted off of America that has covered us with a horrible nightmare for 8 years.
It felt so good to me when I seen FORMER President Bush leave.
8 years ago, when he took office, I had a bad bad bad feeling.
Now it's obvious why. I'm not going to spend a lot of time criticizing him. He's not worth my time.

Now, unfortunatly, this 8 year nightmare still lingers on.
We have a recession that is hurting all of us Americans.
I have hardly been working at all within the past 2 months.
I'm sure we all have a story to share about that.
But most importantly we are still at war in the middle east.
Our men and women are still out there fighting so I am able to sit here and type these words.

I can only hope and pray that Obama sticks to his words and does what needs to be done to rebuild America again.
In his words, WE NEED TO STAND UP, DUST OURSELVES OFF AND START!

I can really care less about what color or race he is.
All we can do is hope he does well.

As I said 8 years ago, I had a bad bad bad feeling.
Today, I have a different feeling. It's more of a positive feeling.
I hope i'm not wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: A New President
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:02 pm 
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Galvatron wrote:

First off, I'd like to say I am not into politics. I can't trust a polititian at all.
I would trust a Quintesson before I would fully trust any polititian.



Well heres how i define polo-tics. Polo- meaning many and tics- blood sucking insects

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 Post subject: Re: A New President
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:45 pm 
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S0und_wave wrote:
Galvatron wrote:

First off, I'd like to say I am not into politics. I can't trust a polititian at all.
I would trust a Quintesson before I would fully trust any polititian.



Well heres how i define polo-tics. Polo- meaning many and tics- blood sucking insects


I agree with you there Soundwave


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:12 pm 
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I didn't vote for him, for his military non participation and a few other things, but when I thought about it, he doesn't have a war hungry appetite. Maybe, just maybe, he can really give this country a boost since its at an all time low. Our money is nearly mocked in other countries. Its way worse now than when I was overseas in 04. I hope that God can bless president obama, and help him bring this country back into the place it used to be, ON TOP BABY!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:59 pm 
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My outsider view... I couldn't watch the ceremony nor the speech in the very moment - however, I have tried to catch as much as possible.

The election of Barack Obama has attracted a lot of attention from the whole world - more than the usual to the election of the president of the most powerful country. Mostly because of the meaning of all the "race" thing.

I am prone to believe that's an overrated issue - I don't agree fully with the "affirmative action" concept. However, the fact is that he's seen with hope from everywhere, pretty much like it was when we elected our first female president in 2006. And in politics, symbols count. A lot.

I wish president Obama all the best. He's going to bear a heavy burden.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:09 am 
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I hope he does a good job for the world and the USAs sake :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:51 am 
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he cant be any worse than the last guy

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:49 am 
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Dirge1 wrote:
he cant be any worse than the last guy


He's gonna be a heck of a lot better.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:03 am 
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I have a firm belief Barack will do the US, and the rest of the world for that matter, a lot of good.

But he has an almost impossible task in front of him. With the recent crisis just beginning, I doubt it's possible to restore the US to a super-economy - I fear we've just seen the tip of the iceberg.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:47 pm 
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i love your definition of "polo-tics" Soundwave

I also agree with everybody who has posted so far.
Especially Dirge LOL

The scary thing is people are looking at Obama like he's a superhero.
All based on hope.

Lex Luger has held us down for 8 long years
Superman has come to our aid LOL

Somebody knit that guy a cape

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:03 pm 
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@Hound: The US is still a super-economy, even with the economic crisis. It has not affected the wealthiest people in the country, who do most of the foreign investing. It may be the case that soon the US will not be the only super-economy, as China is getting more involved in foreign investment, but we will be an economic powerhouse for a long time yet.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:24 pm 
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Galvatron wrote:
Lex Luger has held us down for 8 long years
Superman has come to our aid LOL


someone's been watching too much wwf/wcw....Lex Luthor!! :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:36 pm 
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Rattrap wrote:
@Hound: The US is still a super-economy, even with the economic crisis. It has not affected the wealthiest people in the country, who do most of the foreign investing. It may be the case that soon the US will not be the only super-economy, as China is getting more involved in foreign investment, but we will be an economic powerhouse for a long time yet.


correct. We have arrived at being the world's sole super-economy due to, among other things,

*relatively early industrialization
*lands, natural resources and property relatively unscathed by WWI and WWII, while the economy was revved up to unprecedented levels in both conflicts. The USA is the only global power to be able to hold claim to these two facts.
*Enormous amounts of GDP dedicated to R&D
*The most highly-skilled workforce, in terms of labor in proportion to population, in the entire world.

Other countries may follow suit...but it will take a catastrophic event to remove the US as a super-global economy within a few months....or a few decades of shrinking/reduced growth.

The 24 hour global economy is centered on three locales:
New York
London
Tokyo

i could cite financial terms and concepts but we remain a super-global economy until, God forbid, nukes reign from the skies or armageddon, Biblical or otheriwse, arrives.



Now in regards to Barack...I'm quite interested in international relations and foreign policy (I minored in international relations in college)...so he seems to say the right things, but I'll refrain from forming any kind of opinion until Obama explicitly indicates where he stands re: Israel, Iran, North Korea, Russia, etc.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:20 pm 
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@Rattrap:

How can you say that, with the US being the centre of the economic failure???
What country in the world has more debt than the US?
How will that fact play out with the crisis going on?

PLEASE NOTE, this is NOT gloating ,as my country's and pretty much every western country's economy is wholly in sync with the US.

I honestly believe though, that the US era as a super-economy now will come to an end, and with it, most of the european big powers.
Both China and India have long been on the rise, and they're less affected by the crisis than 'we' are.

Now, and I'm thinking global here, is that such a bad thing? Think about it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:10 pm 
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Hound wrote:
@Rattrap:

How can you say that, with the US being the centre of the economic failure???
What country in the world has more debt than the US?
How will that fact play out with the crisis going on?

PLEASE NOTE, this is NOT gloating ,as my country's and pretty much every western country's economy is wholly in sync with the US.

I honestly believe though, that the US era as a super-economy now will come to an end, and with it, most of the european big powers.
Both China and India have long been on the rise, and they're less affected by the crisis than 'we' are.

Now, and I'm thinking global here, is that such a bad thing? Think about it.


That is true, the US is the center of economic failure. But the U.S. has successfully dragged down every single major economy in the world with it. And in many cases (europe), the extent of their (i.e. the other major economies) purchases of financial instruments underwritten, created, sold, guaranteed, and funded by U.S. corporations and individuals is so significant that they have propped up entire sections of their domestic economies with these American-made financial instruments. Now, these instruments are worthless. Because these economies were so integrated into purchasing those instruments, their road to recovery is no shorter, and indeed may be longer, than that of the U.S. itself.

Now, regarding debt.

The U.S, owns the most debt by far, that is true. That is only 1 side of the coin.

The largest economy in the world does not belong to any 1 country. In fact it belongs to several countries that are united with 1 currency, the euro. The European Union has the world's largest economy...followed closely by the United States.

In fact, in 2007 the European Union produced $14,712,369 MILLION (that's $14,712,369,000,000.00) worth of goods and services. The US follows with $13,807,550 Million of goods and services. The next largest economy is China. But they lag far behind at $7,034,838 million. That means the US is almost twice as large economically as the next largest economy in the world, a HUGE disparity (these data are country GDP, scaled by using purchasing power parity. You can find them on the IMF's website).

In the same year, the entire worth of goods and services produced by the whole world was $64,903,314 million.

Some more facts....the U.S. is on the top of list in terms of owing the most debt, as you pointed out. The next on the list, believe it or not, is our good friends in the United Kingdom. Surprisingly, they are not far behind.
In 2007 the U.S. owed $12,250 billion (that's 12.25 Trillion dollars).
However, the U.K. owed $10,450 billion! After the UK, Germany owes more. After Germany, France; after France, Italy; after Italy, the Netherlands...do you see a trend?

The trend is that all the countries that owe the most money, are the same countries with the highest GDP. In fact, The U.S. and the E.U. alone contribute 45% of the GDP of the entire world. In other words, the United States and the European Union, together, comprise almost half of the entire world's economy!

It is no wonder then that foreign governments and countries continue pouring in money into the U.S. The U.S. does not owe money to foreign countries because they ask to borrow money...the U.S. owes money to foreign countries because those same foreign countries see the U.S. as a better place to invest their government's-and by extension, their population's-money than their own country. Now that says a lot.

Now here is where China is partially dependent on the U.S. for their economic growth....the biggest consumer of goods and services from China is (not surprisingly) the United States. Now we all joke about ubiquitous items "made in China." But who is going to buy all those excess goods f the U.S. goes under?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:32 pm 
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the mind boggles :shock:

lets put it in laymans terms

the world is screwed :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:12 pm 
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:shock: Overflord, do you have a PhD in economy?
Impressive summary.

But from what I read, we agree. Every western contry and in particular the US is going to take serious hit. That much is for certain.
However, no-one has been able to predict this crisis; my guess is that no-one can predict how it will affect all of our lives in the years to come.

Personally,I predict it'll be very VERY severe indeed; I think lifechanging is the word for it. And I say again, 'is that such a bad thing?'.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:53 pm 
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Wow. this is the best, most civil, least opinionated, most fact-based politics discussion i have ever seen. i commend you all! only at TFL.... i'm the proudest forum dad in the world :lol:


Anyway, I agree with hound, somewhat. My family is personally hurting very badly from the economic crash. However, it might set to rights a society based on greed, and living beyond its means. i know pure egalitarianism wouldn't be economically feasible here, but let's spend what we earn, and not too much more unless we have to (college).
As for President Obama, I agree with what many of you have said. I think that his race should not be an issue, only his deeds. bringing hope and inspiring a nation in crisis is no small task. when people are hopeful, they make their own futures brighter.
"we must become the change we want to see in the world."
when people are without hope, they do not know what change they should want, or if they should bother wanting any.
I hope he fulfills some of the people's hopes, so that they are inspired to fulfill the rest of those dreams on their own.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:27 am 
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Just out of curiosity, how many people actually paid attention to Obama's race during this election? I mean, I was conscious of the fact that he's of African American descent, but the more I look back on it, the more I realize that the color of his skin had -nothing- to do with my opinion of him, and I hope that's how many of us were thinking. It's encouraging, for me at least, to see that barrier of racial separation breaking down a little. :3

I also am impressed by the calmness of this discussion. Bravo, everyone. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:04 am 
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personally, the so called credit crunch has actually helped me for the reasons

1 - new machinery prices are dropping like lead balloons
2 - used mahinery is the same cause everone is holding on to what they have
3 - livestock prices have skyrocketed
4 - fuel prices have dropped drastically
5 - produce prices have stabilized for the first time in 12 years allowing long term planning
6 - i dont have any outstanding finances on anything
7 - i own the house that i live in

some people may argue that i have been lucky, but i put it down to 15 years of business sense

to my mind it isnt all the poloticians fault, some of the blame must lie with the people for getting greedy a lot of people saw this coming in the tail end of 2007 me and grimlock being two of them. thats why we were so careful with money.

the bottom dropped out of our job in 1997 with the bse scare and for me its nice to see all these people who profited from that fall from grace and the working farmer get something out of it.

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