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Positives that have come out of the crash thus far:
-Lower Gas Prices
-Credit Reform (Finally, companies are forced to stop lending to people who can't pay so they don't go out of business.)
-The idea that everyone deserves a house should be permanently dispelled, given what that idea has done to our lending market.

As for blame in this crisis, no one party is to blame. Three big parties stick out in my mind:
-Politicians who don't understand the economic ramifications of their attempts to help the poor or themselves.
-Short sighted credit companies who are tempted by the idea of keeping people perpetually in debt for a perpetual money supply, who don't understand how easily these people can be forced to default on their debt by fluctuation in the economy.
-People who live outside their means, who buy houses they can't afford and rack up credit card debt on luxuries they can't afford.

These people have created an economic crisis that is affecting everyone, even those living responsibly. Banks are being tighter with money, interest rates are up and credit limits are down, some of this is good for society, but its harmful to business. People can't afford as many goods, especially luxury goods. Highly leveraged companies will go under and get gobbled up by less leveraged companies. The economy will recover, its just a matter of when. The Government is trying to throw enough money at the economy to speed up its recover, but thus far it seems to be without rhyme or reason. There will be permanent changes hopefully, especially to the way credit is handled, but our glorious economy based on universal greed is still going strong.

i almost got into a house about 10 years ago, the real estate agent said my interest rate would be low for about 8-10 years then it would change.

I said to the wife, that it just sounds to risky.
What will happen to us in 10 years?


Well.. 10 years later I witness all the foreclosures.
If I would have bought that house 10 years ago, my foreclosure would be on that list as well.

Redline wrote:Just out of curiosity, how many people actually paid attention to Obama's race during this election? I mean, I was conscious of the fact that he's of African American descent, but the more I look back on it, the more I realize that the color of his skin had -nothing- to do with my opinion of him, and I hope that's how many of us were thinking. It's encouraging, for me at least, to see that barrier of racial separation breaking down a little. :3

I also am impressed by the calmness of this discussion. Bravo, everyone.

I paid attention to his race in so far as I knew immediately that he would bring a different background to the table...in the same, broad overall sense that Hillary Clinton would bring a different background to the table.

There were very small details though that really (in my opinon at least) gave confirmation of Obama's "different background" so to speak.

Here is what I was thinking:

Every politician/political leader so far has pronounced Iraq with a flat "a" such that it sounds like E-rack. Some go even further and prounce with a long "i" such that it sounds like I-rack.

The proper pronounciatin of Iraq sounds like "E-rock", with the stress on the rock. The same thing goes for how politicians pronounce "Taliban"

Now on the surface things like that are quite trivial. But I thought about it and said that if Obama knows the correct pronounciation...then he's been exposed to some type of contact or experience or learning or proximity or whatever, that has given him some degree of familiarity with the middle east...to the extent that it has influenced the way he talks. That immediately struck me when I heard him speak about the middle east the first couple of times. Again it's not really a big deal but you know there is some intelligence and comprehension regarding the middle east in all the political rhetoric...that has simply been lacking before.

I dunno, it may be nothing at all, but I think it holds its own significance.

Per his race/color...he could be native american, muslim, russian decent, asian, whatever...i frankly wouldn't care, so long as he has no hidden agenda and really believes in what he says.

Hound wrote: Overflord, do you have a PhD in economy?
Impressive summary.

But from what I read, we agree. Every western contry and in particular the US is going to take serious hit. That much is for certain.
However, no-one has been able to predict this crisis; my guess is that no-one can predict how it will affect all of our lives in the years to come.

Personally,I predict it'll be very VERY severe indeed; I think lifechanging is the word for it. And I say again, 'is that such a bad thing?'.

Thanks. I have some grasp of economics and finance because I majored in econ in college, and have worked at three investment banks since graduating (all three still remain..in case you are curious...but all three have also been in the news since this whole mess began).

Suffice it to say that the crisis will change things is a sure certainty. The day of infinitely leveraged firms, cheap credit, poor families buying $800,000 homes, and grotesque bonuses on wall street has ended. More regulation, more conservative lending...and eventually, more financial innovation to circumvent that regulation, are the only certainties.

For my part, my pay has been slashed 10% since the crisis started. Obviously i am upset about that. From a macro view however...what is happening is very necessary to correct pervasive flaws in the financial system...flaws that have been relentlessly exploited until now.

So until this whole mess is finished, I find solace in beer. And transformers.

So until this whole mess is finished, I find solace in beer

That is not the way forward

I find solace in transformers.

Now, that is more like it.......

Obama WILL screw over this country. Mark my words.

I disagree, I think Obama will do a better job for the US as a whole then Bush ever did.

genoneguy wrote:Obama WILL screw over this country. Mark my words.

Though it is still to early for me to tell... We all hope you are wrong.

i will wait and let history judge how well he does

Dirge1 wrote:i will wait and let history judge how well he does

agreed

Please Bush damn near bankrupted this country, no one could do any worse, i believe Obama will help our country

genoneguy wrote:Obama WILL screw over this country. Mark my words.

That's a great statement. No factual argument, just a vague prophesy of doom at the hands of our president.

and more importantly,

HOW?

and even more importantly

WHY?
He is an elected official, currently holding the highest office in the land, it makes no sense for him to 'screw the country'. For what reason? What would be the goal of screwing the country?

I apologize if my post is a little argumentative, but to make a statement without any contextual or factual support is just nonsense.

Reminder: Let's keep this civil. We don't want this turning into a flamewar.

I only wanted to post my feelings about the situation of having a new President. We all live on hope and dreams right now because most of us have nothing else.

I'm not saying Obama is going to be a heroic President and I'm not saying he's going to be a bad President.

I never meant it to become a political debate.

genoneguy wrote:Obama WILL screw over this country. Mark my words.

Care to elaborate on your views mate?

I agree. I stay away from political debates as inevitably one side will feel the need to increasingly counter the otherside, which obviously escalates.

Obviously, no one hopes for obama to fail. If you are a U.S. citizen like me, you don't want him to fail.

If you are living in europe, likewise you do not want him to fail for various clear reasons.

If you live in the middle east, you do not and cannot afford for him to fail, because so much in the M.E. is directly affected by american foreign policy.

Etc. etc.

For my part, Obama today issued a bunch of press conferences talking about new energy reforms and independency. That is a very exciting premise, both for the economy, the envirnoment, and our prosperity. I applaud his progressive thinking and hope that these things turn into reality.

Our economy has been exposed and energy innovation and reform is a brilliant way to revitalize it while ensuring our prosperity and environment at the same time.

We all live on hope and dreams right now because most of us have nothing else.

amen to that

Grimlock wrote:

So until this whole mess is finished, I find solace in beer

That is not the way forward

I find solace in transformers.

Now, that is more like it.......

haha yeah you're right. however beer is much less expensive

Yes it is, but the enjoyment in Transformers lasts for ever.

Grimlock wrote:Yes it is, but the enjoyment in Transformers lasts for ever.

You go girl!!!