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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:00 am 
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Martial Arts Warrior

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I can't find anything relevant in the TFL rules. In fact, to quote YOU, Ultra Magnus, in the General Discussions thread welcome:

"This is a place to discuss all interests other than Transformers. Sure if you see something in a topic that makes you think of Transformers, your comment is welcome in that thread, but for the most part, it is a Transformers free zone. Let your hair down and relax. "

So that kind of quashes "especially as it is not directly related to TFL", now doesn't it?

Frankly, I'm getting tired of the heavy handed modding that is becoming more and more frequent... especially when it is being done against things NOT AGAINST THE RULES.

*sigh*


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:03 am 
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I don't know if it violated anything yet. But it could easily go over the line. I can get very worked up on that topic.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:05 am 
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Martial Arts Warrior

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The only rule that I see that it even came remotely close to was "no flaming". But assuming everything you stated was truth (and thus not slander), then it DOES NOT qualify as flaming, and I can't find any other reason it should've been locked.

And I'm fairly certain everything you said was accurate, as I've been having those same issues with evil-bay myself.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:59 am 
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I don't know if it violated a rule specifically. But I can totally understand if TFL wants to avoid potential problems hosting such a thread could bring. Like you said there is an issue of possible slander or something. I have no problem with them not wanting to open a can of worms.


unfortunately I'm the kind of person who usually lets the small issues pass. So when something big enough happens for me need to do something about it I already have a pool of frustration to channel. Considering that this issue is going to cost me a minimum of $100+ in fees, but sooo much worse with a drop in sales this close to xmas. Down over $200 already since last weekend. So unless they rebound soon it could easily end up being thousands over the 3 months it'll take to resolve the problem. So this is one I wanted to vent on.


I wish I thought it was possible to do a strictly informative thread about star importance. But assuming it was possible that the posts didn't turn into another complaint thread, I just don't think it would stay active long enough for many people to read it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:43 am 
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Big Daddy
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Banzai,

I respect your question towards this matter, but please understand that sometimes we have to make unpopular decisions.

Let us look at the history of the thread.

1) A thread was opened specifically to look only at the negative sides of another organization. It was not opened in the interest of a discussion or debate about the merits versus the negative sides of an organization, or rants in general, but the specific negative sides of an organization. This does not break a rule in and of itself, but (no offense to the original poster of that thread) is seen as bad form.

Healthy discussions, debates (within reason), and general commenting about a specific person or organization are welcome at all times, but to specifically put up a thread to (for all intents and purposes) take pot shots at an individual or organization will immediately get moderator/admin attention. This is at very least a gray area.

2) The tone of the first post was meant to be informative. It was well presented, and let us know what was going on for sellers (even though some of the wording was a bit inflammatory). The second took a slightly more aggressive tone. The third was at a point where it was becoming an expletive (though censored) laden diatribe, throwing out anecdotal numbers as proof of argument, and calls to action that the poster may or may not have knowledge as to whether the organization actual already performs (and this is all in just the first paragraph).

This, in the eyes of myself, and other members of the moderation/admin team was where it crossed the flaming line, and was potentially flame baiting for anyone that disagreed.

Seeing this, as a sign of things only going downhill, I took an action, which you may not have agreed with, but was seen as in the best interest of the board.





Now, to the posters in the other thread. I am not trying to say you are bad people, or behaved in a bad manner, just that the topic got away from its original intent, which was to inform. Yes, the topic was a gray area to begin with, which we should takes as a learning process in the future.

Instead of "eBay Rant Thread" we could perhaps call a thread like that "How the eBay star system works", and avoids some of the issues that thread had. That way, the actual issue that the original poster came in with could have been discussed in more detail (people that only bought at eBay could have come to say "Wow, that's how it works?" or "You want to know what system I use to determine who gets what stars?"). The way it was titled/framed, just invited more negative comments, only, which ultimately is the reason it was brought down.

I hope this brings better understanding to all.

Finally, I would hope at this point anyone with any further questions would see fit to PM me regarding this issue, as it feels that, by discussing this openly, I have had to talk badly about two members of this forum, which is not my intent. I had to use their participation in this thread as the example given. I respect greatly both of these posters, and hold no ill will towards them in any regards towards this matter. Hopefully they understand my mention of them in this post as educational only, and not as an attack.

Thanks,

Maggie

-TFL Admin Team

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:55 am 
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Like I said I totally understand. I know I was worked up about it the issue's impact on me personally. I have no complaints with the brakes being put on.

Your suggestion is a good one. I may edit my original post some more so that it can be used in a new strictly informative thread.

Edit: I did post a new more informative version. Please give it a read and let me know if it resolves the problems the original presented.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:47 pm 
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Big Daddy
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LD2062 wrote:
Like I said I totally understand. I know I was worked up about it the issue's impact on me personally. I have no complaints with the brakes being put on.

Your suggestion is a good one. I may edit my original post some more so that it can be used in a new strictly informative thread.

Edit: I did post a new more informative version. Please give it a read and let me know if it resolves the problems the original presented.


Thank you for your understanding of the matter, and as for my thoughts on the new thread, well you will just have to read them there. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:40 pm 
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Regarding recent events:
There has been some vocal backlash lately about the closing of this eBay thread. I appreciate that Ultra Magnus has handled the issue very diplomatically, and as I would have myself. I also appreciate that a new, informative thread has been opened to bring the topic into a different light. However, I have some issues I'd like to voice as we work toward moving on from this incidence.
Firstoff, over the years, we have had a lot of trouble, as a staff, with issues of public argument over decisions or actions the staff has taken in official capacity. In efforts of continual improvement, I welcome all of you to privately contact any staff member with questions regarding a decision that was made. However, public callouts and picking fights with any TFL staff over their decisions is unacceptable behavior. I have heard members and former members of this site refer to my staff as everything from "heavy-handed" to "Fascist." I have, myself, even been openly accused of being a "communist" due to a decision I made some time back.
Let me put this all into perspective. When writing each version of this forum's rules, I have always tried to minimize them significantly compared to other, larger boards in this hobby. I want members here to enjoy a freedom and mutual respect that does not exist at larger forums.
First, you will find TFL is significantly less restrictive regarding discussions, however, that does not mean you can say anything. We have been monitoring enough forum discussions to spot potential problems before rules are severely broken. Further, many other forums leave no room for discussion or questioning of staff decisions or rules at all, private or not. I wish to continue to hear your feedback, albeit henceforth in private.
Next, I'd like to point out that locked threads are a routine problem-nipping practice around here, and rarely are members punished, sanctioned, or otherwise indicted regarding these threads. We're just trying to keep the community in the right attitude, without actually being "heavy-handed." As evidence, I present that only two accounts have ever been banned for any length of time here, and both for repeated, grave, and intentional offenses to our code of conduct.
In exchange for this more personable policy, I ask for a bit more respect for the staff, whether you initially agree with the call or not. Use discretion, not reaction.
Lastly, it is the staff's job to oversee that things go smoothly, including with other staff. If you have a genuine concern with another staff member's behavior, feel free to PRIVATELY contact another Administrator with the problem. Public callouts, again, are unacceptable.
Thank you all for taking the time to read this, and please feel free to contact me with questions or issues: Email is the fastest and most reliable method to contact me at this time.
-TT

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:55 pm 
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Martial Arts Warrior

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Thanks for your replies, TT and Maggie. It's not much of a defense, but I had been drinking when I posted that... I wasn't really trying to "call-out" anyone, but merely seeking a clarification. Though, I can see (now) that it didn't really come across that way. Stupid alcohol.

My apologies, guys. I'm not trying to stir up trouble, I just like clarity.

As for why I called it "heavy-handed", I'd prefer to see warnings on threads before a lockout. We DO seem to be a civil bunch around here, and I'd like to believe a simple "Hey guys, the above post(s) borders on flaming, lets tone this conversation down some or I'll have to lock it" would serve the purpose just as well, especially in admittedly borderline or pre-emptive strike situations such as this.

In the future, I will (admittedly grudgingly, as I like as much transparence in processes as possible ;) voice my concerns privately.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:04 am 
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I was just going to say that I understand and respect the decision of the staff.
I agree intirely, I realize that my post was nothing more than a rant, so I have no qualms with the way this was handled.

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