Transformers 2 (SPOILER MINEFIELD)
Moderators: Time Traveller, Kup
haven't seen it yet. this may be sad as a TF fan but I will probably wait until it comes out on DVD. i have a pretty nice home theater and if it is 2 1/2 hours long I like the option of skipping through the boring stuff. I do a mean lord of the rings edit. you can really trim it down if you press skip every time you see frodo or sam walking, walking, walking.
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Cliffjumper
- Cybertronian Cowboy
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Cliffjumper
- Cybertronian Cowboy
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- Location: Canberra Australia
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Trailbreaker
- Gestalt Team Leader
- Posts: 291
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Cliffjumper
- Cybertronian Cowboy
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It was ok. I think I need to see it again before I can make my final judgment. I too was dissappointed with some of the humor, including devastator's wrecking balls. Parts of it were funny, parts went too far. I agree with some, it would have nice to see some more character development. Oh well, they can always get it right in the next one.
wj
wj
"Never do what your enemy expects you to do."
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itsprimetime
- Targetmaster
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- Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:24 pm
So after seeing the movie last Thursday here are my thoughts: (spoilers ahead)
As a transfan, I would give it a 5/10, general fan 6/10.
Soundwave-Not enough screen time, hopefully they will flesh out his character in 3. I didn't like that Frank used the Dr. Claw voice instead of Soundwave's voice. That was the whole purpose of us wanting Welker.
Ravage-Except for the whole one eye, I thought he was badass. He wasn't introduced by Soundwave or anyone else, which kinda aggravated me. If you weren't a fan, you wouldn't know who he was.
Scalpel-Why did he have a German accent?
Fallen-Should've been Leonard Nimoy, but I thought he was very underused and could've really added to the story if he had a more prevalent role.
Megatron-I thought he seemed weaker in this one compared to tf1. He was great in the forrest battle, especially when he kills Prime. It was great to see him and Starscream fight and bicker, although it was more of Megatron berating him and Screamer acting like a coward.
Alice-Initially I thought I wasn't going to like the Pretender idea, but since it was kept short and sweet, it really added to the film and was actually pretty good.
Devastator-The biggest waste of computer graphics ever. ILM blew up a computer to make him, and he was in the film for maybe 5 minutes, and then is easily taken down by some experimental weapon no one has ever heard of. Forget the testicle debacle, I really feel like having Devastator was a complete waste because he wasn't used properly. In addition, why the hell were there repaints of the constructicons?? With a $200 M budget, we deserve better than repaints.
Sideswipe-Probably the coolest robot in the movie, yet has a screentime of 30 seconds. I understand you can't do justice to probably everyone, but at least more than 30 seconds. Also, he was supposed to be Lamborghini, but Bay shot it down and used the Stingray instead. If it was me, I'd choose the Lamborghini 100 out of 100 times.
Twins-I liked them, much more than I thought I would originally. Some of the humor was a bit much, but they were certainly not racist. I think having less of them and more of characters like Sideswipe and Ironhide would've added to the "epicness" of this movie.
Jolt-Great looking robot, but if you blinked, you missed him.
Arcee bikes-I thought it was stupid to include them, and I feel they really added nothing to the movie. Just cannon fodder.
Wheelie-More like Rattrap.
Jetfire-Actually pretty good. I would've done with a little less humor from him, but overall I thought he was one of the more enjoyable aspects of the movie.
Prime-Finally got his just due. No other words to say other than awesome.
As far as script concerns go, I would say it felt rushed together. It seemed like they were trying to hard to please us geewuners and not properly explain things. Character development with the exception of the twins and Jetfire I felt was almost nonexistent. Soundwave needs to be fleshed out more. The forrest battle was probably the best part of the movie. This movie could've been so much more in terms of depth and scale. It really should've been our Empire Strikes Back, but I felt like it just never lived up to the hype. Not saying I won't buy it on dvd, but just not as enjoyable as the first movie. Next time Bay, if you do decide to give us 40+ robots, concentrate on more character development of the bots.
As a transfan, I would give it a 5/10, general fan 6/10.
Soundwave-Not enough screen time, hopefully they will flesh out his character in 3. I didn't like that Frank used the Dr. Claw voice instead of Soundwave's voice. That was the whole purpose of us wanting Welker.
Ravage-Except for the whole one eye, I thought he was badass. He wasn't introduced by Soundwave or anyone else, which kinda aggravated me. If you weren't a fan, you wouldn't know who he was.
Scalpel-Why did he have a German accent?
Fallen-Should've been Leonard Nimoy, but I thought he was very underused and could've really added to the story if he had a more prevalent role.
Megatron-I thought he seemed weaker in this one compared to tf1. He was great in the forrest battle, especially when he kills Prime. It was great to see him and Starscream fight and bicker, although it was more of Megatron berating him and Screamer acting like a coward.
Alice-Initially I thought I wasn't going to like the Pretender idea, but since it was kept short and sweet, it really added to the film and was actually pretty good.
Devastator-The biggest waste of computer graphics ever. ILM blew up a computer to make him, and he was in the film for maybe 5 minutes, and then is easily taken down by some experimental weapon no one has ever heard of. Forget the testicle debacle, I really feel like having Devastator was a complete waste because he wasn't used properly. In addition, why the hell were there repaints of the constructicons?? With a $200 M budget, we deserve better than repaints.
Sideswipe-Probably the coolest robot in the movie, yet has a screentime of 30 seconds. I understand you can't do justice to probably everyone, but at least more than 30 seconds. Also, he was supposed to be Lamborghini, but Bay shot it down and used the Stingray instead. If it was me, I'd choose the Lamborghini 100 out of 100 times.
Twins-I liked them, much more than I thought I would originally. Some of the humor was a bit much, but they were certainly not racist. I think having less of them and more of characters like Sideswipe and Ironhide would've added to the "epicness" of this movie.
Jolt-Great looking robot, but if you blinked, you missed him.
Arcee bikes-I thought it was stupid to include them, and I feel they really added nothing to the movie. Just cannon fodder.
Wheelie-More like Rattrap.
Jetfire-Actually pretty good. I would've done with a little less humor from him, but overall I thought he was one of the more enjoyable aspects of the movie.
Prime-Finally got his just due. No other words to say other than awesome.
As far as script concerns go, I would say it felt rushed together. It seemed like they were trying to hard to please us geewuners and not properly explain things. Character development with the exception of the twins and Jetfire I felt was almost nonexistent. Soundwave needs to be fleshed out more. The forrest battle was probably the best part of the movie. This movie could've been so much more in terms of depth and scale. It really should've been our Empire Strikes Back, but I felt like it just never lived up to the hype. Not saying I won't buy it on dvd, but just not as enjoyable as the first movie. Next time Bay, if you do decide to give us 40+ robots, concentrate on more character development of the bots.
Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost...
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Time Traveller
- Father Time (Admin)
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Dev's balls: If you DIDN'T notice them, they VERBALLY CALLED ATTENTION to them. It would have been funnier if they left it as a background detail. "hee hee, look behind simmons!" But NO. Tuturro mentioning them aloud was like saying "Get it? Get it?" after a punchline.
Primetime, got some comments for you.
Scalpel: ALL evil doctors are German, didn't you know that? (In Team fortress 2, the medic character with the big latex gloves is also German)
Sideswipe: You probably haven't heard this rant, but Lambo is owned by Audi who's owned by VW who's owned by Porsche, who "doesn't condone war toys." this debate started when hasbro prototyped a porsche alternators jazz. I'm sad too, especially when they killed the pontiac fiero-descendant to put in a corvette, just as GM killed the fiero because it was becoming as popular as the corvette. (the fiero was much more affordable, and even though it was a much smaller-engined car, they were worried it would besmirch the corvette's stand-alone status as a 2 seat sports car).
Wheelie: not really like Rattrap
And a general comment, about Devastator and the Constructicons: I'm not 100% positive here, i want to see the movie again. It ALMOST seems like the constructicons we see elsewhere (Mix, long haul, demolishor, scrapper (killed for parts under the sea)) are SEPARATE from devastator.... IE, like in the toys, devastator is just... devastator. I DO know for sure that the terex mining shovel that forms dev's torso is named SCAVENGER, not demolishor.
Also, i'm adding a warning to the thread title here.
Primetime, got some comments for you.
Scalpel: ALL evil doctors are German, didn't you know that? (In Team fortress 2, the medic character with the big latex gloves is also German)
Sideswipe: You probably haven't heard this rant, but Lambo is owned by Audi who's owned by VW who's owned by Porsche, who "doesn't condone war toys." this debate started when hasbro prototyped a porsche alternators jazz. I'm sad too, especially when they killed the pontiac fiero-descendant to put in a corvette, just as GM killed the fiero because it was becoming as popular as the corvette. (the fiero was much more affordable, and even though it was a much smaller-engined car, they were worried it would besmirch the corvette's stand-alone status as a 2 seat sports car).
Wheelie: not really like Rattrap
And a general comment, about Devastator and the Constructicons: I'm not 100% positive here, i want to see the movie again. It ALMOST seems like the constructicons we see elsewhere (Mix, long haul, demolishor, scrapper (killed for parts under the sea)) are SEPARATE from devastator.... IE, like in the toys, devastator is just... devastator. I DO know for sure that the terex mining shovel that forms dev's torso is named SCAVENGER, not demolishor.
Also, i'm adding a warning to the thread title here.
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Trailbreaker
- Gestalt Team Leader
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Why not use Sideswipe and Sunstreaker as the twins instead of the HORRIBLE characters they actually used? There would've been plenty of opportunites for comic relief from the original, vain twins.
and why not use Kup as the old timer instead of Jetfire?
I think that this would've served the same purpose with better results and serve as a tip of the hat to the original series.
and why not use Kup as the old timer instead of Jetfire?
I think that this would've served the same purpose with better results and serve as a tip of the hat to the original series.
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Ultra Magnus
- Big Daddy
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Not only did they call notice to them, but they had actually used up all euphemism's and were resorting to scientific terms (well, if they had been attached to a human, that is)!Time Traveller wrote:Dev's balls: If you DIDN'T notice them, they VERBALLY CALLED ATTENTION to them. It would have been funnier if they left it as a background detail. "hee hee, look behind simmons!" But NO. Tuturro mentioning them aloud was like saying "Get it? Get it?" after a punchline.
Not only that...
What was up with the dogs?
How was that necessary, or helpful to the film in any way? If I am not mistaken they made sure to reference that both dogs were male, so not only do I get the question from my 7 year old "What are they doing?" but from my 9 year old as well "How can two boys make puppies?" I understand that sort of relationship happens in nature all the time. I just don't think I need to explain it my son when he wants to watch a 2+ hour commercial for toys. We are holding that talk until he is still just a bit older than 9, because the first talk made him uncomfortable enough.
Because, as we all know after the first movie (and if you did not know by watching the first movie, you knew from the special features that came with the first set of discs), that if writers come to Bay with anything resembling a decent story/characterization based on past continuity, Bay will tell them to start over.Trailbreaker wrote:Why not use Sideswipe and Sunstreaker as the twins instead of the HORRIBLE characters they actually used? There would've been plenty of opportunites for comic relief from the original, vain twins.
and why not use Kup as the old timer instead of Jetfire?
I think that this would've served the same purpose with better results and serve as a tip of the hat to the original series.
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Trailbreaker
- Gestalt Team Leader
- Posts: 291
- Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:49 pm
Because, as we all know after the first movie (and if you did not know by watching the first movie, you knew from the special features that came with the first set of discs), that if writers come to Bay with anything resembling a decent story/characterization based on past continuity, Bay will tell them to start over.Trailbreaker wrote:Why not use Sideswipe and Sunstreaker as the twins instead of the HORRIBLE characters they actually used? There would've been plenty of opportunites for comic relief from the original, vain twins.
and why not use Kup as the old timer instead of Jetfire?
I think that this would've served the same purpose with better results and serve as a tip of the hat to the original series.
[/quote]Unfortunately this is correct. I didn't hate either film, but I won't rush out to see part 3. This version of Transformers just doesn't do it for me.
Edit:I obviously goofed the quotes.
Last edited by Trailbreaker on Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SentinelPrime
- Autobot Legend
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- Location: The Great State of Texas!
I finally saw the ROTF Movie today with my son. We both thought overall it was much better action than the first one! Had alot great and funny humor and some not so great humor. My most favorite part of the movie was the fight scenes in the forrest with Optimus Prime! He really kicked butt!! Hated he died but it was reversed in the end with great results with Jetfire!
I really liked the Jetfire character! Didn't really care for the twins, Mudflap and Skids. And Devastator was a wasted character too.
As a result...several questions have popped up:
1) The woman who transforms into a robot????? What is this all about? Who is she suppose to be?
2) Was Demolisher destroyed in the beginning of the movie or not? Later in the desert he's BACK!!!!!!!???????
3) I thought Arcee was to be destroyed early in the movie...it was more toward the end????????
4) Who was the Decepticon in the desert was was fighting with Bumblebee when he dumped Sam's parents as bait? It looked like a combo of Demolisher and the Bulldozer Decepticon???
5) Was that Blackout or Grindor fighting Prime in the forrest?
I really liked the Jetfire character! Didn't really care for the twins, Mudflap and Skids. And Devastator was a wasted character too.
As a result...several questions have popped up:
1) The woman who transforms into a robot????? What is this all about? Who is she suppose to be?
2) Was Demolisher destroyed in the beginning of the movie or not? Later in the desert he's BACK!!!!!!!???????
3) I thought Arcee was to be destroyed early in the movie...it was more toward the end????????
4) Who was the Decepticon in the desert was was fighting with Bumblebee when he dumped Sam's parents as bait? It looked like a combo of Demolisher and the Bulldozer Decepticon???
5) Was that Blackout or Grindor fighting Prime in the forrest?
THE PROTECTOR OF CYBERTRON
1. She was supposed to be a pretender, a robot with a fleshbag alt-mode.
2. It was Scavenger that was in the desert, Demolishor did die in Shanghai. There were a ridiculous number of Constructicons repaints in that movie, I think they were supposed to be the "workers" that the all spark sent out. Or whatever that movie background nonsense was.
3. I think Acree being destroyed in the beginning was part of the poorly executed disinformation campaign.
4. Apparently it was Rampage. They didn't even bother to apply a different paint job, there were just two of him. Ugh.
5. It was Grindor as Blackout is dead.
2. It was Scavenger that was in the desert, Demolishor did die in Shanghai. There were a ridiculous number of Constructicons repaints in that movie, I think they were supposed to be the "workers" that the all spark sent out. Or whatever that movie background nonsense was.
3. I think Acree being destroyed in the beginning was part of the poorly executed disinformation campaign.
4. Apparently it was Rampage. They didn't even bother to apply a different paint job, there were just two of him. Ugh.
5. It was Grindor as Blackout is dead.
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Time Traveller
- Father Time (Admin)
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Okay, Saw it a second time, when i was in a more lucid state, at a more reasonable hour of night.
Here's my breakdown, in random, incoherent thoughts. If you want to see answers to questions you posted that i have thoughts on, scroll to the bottom
Opening fight: Pretty cool. I was a bit sad that they killed off sideways so fast, but that's what Audi gets for not letting us have their cars as war toys. We see the Arcee sisters as adept and agile fighters, and not so much through the rest of the movie.
Sam college story interlude: The two most UNNECESSARY, detracting bits in the movie are found here. The dog humping, TWICE, completely unnecessary. The chihuahua wasn't funny in the first flick, and isn't here either. ESPECIALLY since this doubles up with the wheelie leg-humping 'joke'. The pot brownie scene. What? it's not FUNNY, for one, and it's completely unrealistic on so many levels.
Otherwise, this portion wasn't too bad. Bumblebee playing "Your Cheatin' Heart", "Jaws", and after Alice is unharmed by the headbutt with the dash "She's a Brick.... house" was funny. Also, good to know you can wrap the front bumper of a Saturn around a lightpost without blowing the airbags.
Forest fight: Awesome! Prime kicks ass. It was just the right mix of gunfighting, swordplay, and brawling/wrestling to make it exciting and realistic. Anyone notice the hooks prime pulls Grindor's (a rebuilt Blackout, Sentinel Prime!) face off with are the overheated "blade guides" from his swords? Go look at your ROTF prime. I also got a kick out of Megatron slapping starscream with his severed arm after the fight.
Ravage dodging around and providing cover fire from a distance for the insecticon stickman was pretty cool.
Bottom of the sea: did ANYONE believe a bunch of water was going to keep megatron down? duh. But that's a first movie beef. My only confusion was whose weird pincher claw we see moving on the boat as they "come to life". NOTE: This Rampage is yellow.
This is getting out of order, oh well.
Blackjack pointed this out to me, and this time it was hilarious. They find the Matrix in the crypt of the last templar (Indiana Jones [Sam and Jones' sidekick Mutt looking alike makes the head hurt further:P))! Choose wisely.... oh, wait, there's only ONE matrix.
Jetfire: Still awesome. The beard rawks. I know he's not G1 Jetfire, but he's still way cool. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Also, his cane turns into his battleaxe. Awesome.
A note on the other 'Seekers' pictured in Simmons' archives: MODEL A PICKUP. YOU WANT KUP? HERE HE IS. Also, i think there's an Me-110 flipped in there. Awesome. TF3, anyone?
Final Battle: OK. Let's clear this up, this whole thing is going to be about the constructicon confusion.
Constructicons:
Demolishor: Dead from first fight. Scavenger: Torso of Devastator.
Rampage (red): captures parents in france, Fights BBee, dies. Rampage (yellow): Laurentian Abyss, devastator's leg.
Long Haul 1: presumably same team as yellow Rampage, so he's in the Abyss, and part of devastator. Long Haul 2: with the desert team. Dies in airstrike.
Overload: Devastator. Not seen elsewhere, unless they stuck him in with the Generic Decepticons? Seems he'd be big enough to stand out.
Hightower 1: Killed for parts in the Abyss. Hightower 2: Devastator.
Scrapper 1: Abyss, Devastator. Scrapper 2: Hidden in the town battle somewhere. Fate?
Mixmaster 1: Abyss, Devastator. Mixmaster 2: knocking down flagpole, Killed by jetfire in desert.
There you have it.
The fight overall was pretty cool. Devastator went down too easily... I liked the varied fighting styles: Rampage (red) jumping around and flinging his treads, Mixmaster leaning forward and swinging his cannon up like a scorpion stinger, scorponok burrowing into jetfire's chest....
And of course, Michael Bay's wet dream, a B1 carpet bombing the town. (anyone remember who G1 Blackout was?
)
Also, "You mean THAT orange smoke?" "Look, it wasn't my best toss, a'ight?"
Finale: The fight with Prime, Fallen, and Megatron was great. Did anyone notice that Jetfire's parts are not only ON prime, but integrated INTO him, to make him more beefy? Watch the end when he jettisons the cannons and the boosters. his torso and shoulders are still bulkier than usual. Tearing The Fallen's face off was a neat effect, it reminded me of the face-tearing that happens to both Megatron and Optimus when they die at various points in the Marvel Comic.
Now to ADDRESS SOME FURTHER CONCERNS
Twins vs. the Lambo Brothers: GM has a say in what cars are used as characters, since they're paying for product placement. You'd hate to see the Lambo Brothers as two chinese-built GM subcompact hatchbacks wouldn't you? (BTW, the chevy beat has existed for a time in the chinese market as the "spark")
Kup vs. Jetfire: This was a result of the recent transformer series combining "Wing Saber" or Jetfire with Prime to power him up. This, mixed with wanting an old, forgotten "seeker" made Old Jetfire.
Rattrap, there are two diff Rampages. see above.
Blackout/Grindor: Blackout died (presumably some sort of survivable stasis-lock) in TF1. Scorps rebuilds him (??) into Grindor, with a different head. Having that head torn off was probably not so survivable.
Bonecrusher: survived said beheading, and he has guns mounted on his arm now, in the desert town. weird.
Constructicon clones: Not so much for Hasbro's repaint value, although it won't hurt for that... Mainly, this was the production crew fleshing out the Decepticon force. Since the generic cons went down so easy, they needed some unique cons to keep the autobots busy, or they could have just all teamed up on Devs. Further, since their only purpose was keeping the autobots busy, they didn't want to design 4 whole new characters. That's my GUESS.
unintended result of this: Owning Supreme devs AND the individual transformables is movie accurate. ugh.
I've gotten awful verbose, so I'll do an actual 'review' of whether i think the movie was good or bad later
Here's my breakdown, in random, incoherent thoughts. If you want to see answers to questions you posted that i have thoughts on, scroll to the bottom
Opening fight: Pretty cool. I was a bit sad that they killed off sideways so fast, but that's what Audi gets for not letting us have their cars as war toys
. We see the Arcee sisters as adept and agile fighters, and not so much through the rest of the movie. Sam college story interlude: The two most UNNECESSARY, detracting bits in the movie are found here. The dog humping, TWICE, completely unnecessary. The chihuahua wasn't funny in the first flick, and isn't here either. ESPECIALLY since this doubles up with the wheelie leg-humping 'joke'. The pot brownie scene. What? it's not FUNNY, for one, and it's completely unrealistic on so many levels.
Otherwise, this portion wasn't too bad. Bumblebee playing "Your Cheatin' Heart", "Jaws", and after Alice is unharmed by the headbutt with the dash "She's a Brick.... house" was funny. Also, good to know you can wrap the front bumper of a Saturn around a lightpost without blowing the airbags.
Forest fight: Awesome! Prime kicks ass. It was just the right mix of gunfighting, swordplay, and brawling/wrestling to make it exciting and realistic. Anyone notice the hooks prime pulls Grindor's (a rebuilt Blackout, Sentinel Prime!) face off with are the overheated "blade guides" from his swords? Go look at your ROTF prime. I also got a kick out of Megatron slapping starscream with his severed arm after the fight.
Ravage dodging around and providing cover fire from a distance for the insecticon stickman was pretty cool.
Bottom of the sea: did ANYONE believe a bunch of water was going to keep megatron down? duh. But that's a first movie beef. My only confusion was whose weird pincher claw we see moving on the boat as they "come to life". NOTE: This Rampage is yellow.
This is getting out of order, oh well.
Blackjack pointed this out to me, and this time it was hilarious. They find the Matrix in the crypt of the last templar (Indiana Jones [Sam and Jones' sidekick Mutt looking alike makes the head hurt further:P))! Choose wisely.... oh, wait, there's only ONE matrix.
Jetfire: Still awesome. The beard rawks. I know he's not G1 Jetfire, but he's still way cool. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Also, his cane turns into his battleaxe. Awesome.
A note on the other 'Seekers' pictured in Simmons' archives: MODEL A PICKUP. YOU WANT KUP? HERE HE IS. Also, i think there's an Me-110 flipped in there. Awesome. TF3, anyone?
Final Battle: OK. Let's clear this up, this whole thing is going to be about the constructicon confusion.
Constructicons:
Demolishor: Dead from first fight. Scavenger: Torso of Devastator.
Rampage (red): captures parents in france, Fights BBee, dies. Rampage (yellow): Laurentian Abyss, devastator's leg.
Long Haul 1: presumably same team as yellow Rampage, so he's in the Abyss, and part of devastator. Long Haul 2: with the desert team. Dies in airstrike.
Overload: Devastator. Not seen elsewhere, unless they stuck him in with the Generic Decepticons? Seems he'd be big enough to stand out.
Hightower 1: Killed for parts in the Abyss. Hightower 2: Devastator.
Scrapper 1: Abyss, Devastator. Scrapper 2: Hidden in the town battle somewhere. Fate?
Mixmaster 1: Abyss, Devastator. Mixmaster 2: knocking down flagpole, Killed by jetfire in desert.
There you have it.
The fight overall was pretty cool. Devastator went down too easily... I liked the varied fighting styles: Rampage (red) jumping around and flinging his treads, Mixmaster leaning forward and swinging his cannon up like a scorpion stinger, scorponok burrowing into jetfire's chest....
And of course, Michael Bay's wet dream, a B1 carpet bombing the town. (anyone remember who G1 Blackout was?
)Also, "You mean THAT orange smoke?" "Look, it wasn't my best toss, a'ight?"
Finale: The fight with Prime, Fallen, and Megatron was great. Did anyone notice that Jetfire's parts are not only ON prime, but integrated INTO him, to make him more beefy? Watch the end when he jettisons the cannons and the boosters. his torso and shoulders are still bulkier than usual. Tearing The Fallen's face off was a neat effect, it reminded me of the face-tearing that happens to both Megatron and Optimus when they die at various points in the Marvel Comic.
Now to ADDRESS SOME FURTHER CONCERNS
Twins vs. the Lambo Brothers: GM has a say in what cars are used as characters, since they're paying for product placement. You'd hate to see the Lambo Brothers as two chinese-built GM subcompact hatchbacks wouldn't you? (BTW, the chevy beat has existed for a time in the chinese market as the "spark")
Kup vs. Jetfire: This was a result of the recent transformer series combining "Wing Saber" or Jetfire with Prime to power him up. This, mixed with wanting an old, forgotten "seeker" made Old Jetfire.
Rattrap, there are two diff Rampages. see above.
Blackout/Grindor: Blackout died (presumably some sort of survivable stasis-lock) in TF1. Scorps rebuilds him (??) into Grindor, with a different head. Having that head torn off was probably not so survivable.
Bonecrusher: survived said beheading, and he has guns mounted on his arm now, in the desert town. weird.
Constructicon clones: Not so much for Hasbro's repaint value, although it won't hurt for that... Mainly, this was the production crew fleshing out the Decepticon force. Since the generic cons went down so easy, they needed some unique cons to keep the autobots busy, or they could have just all teamed up on Devs. Further, since their only purpose was keeping the autobots busy, they didn't want to design 4 whole new characters. That's my GUESS.
unintended result of this: Owning Supreme devs AND the individual transformables is movie accurate. ugh.
I've gotten awful verbose, so I'll do an actual 'review' of whether i think the movie was good or bad later
