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Ramjet wrote:The McDonalds OP and Meg's hands glow in the dark.
Now that's cool, 'Jet!
Since we're on a glowing topic try putting your G-1 Transformers under a black light. They are phosphorescent and are quite pretty/different looking. Perceptor, Tracks, Sunstreaker, Sideswipe and the Constructicons are the most trippy.
I'm just going to point out that black lights typically put out a band of UV that you REALLY don't want to expose your TFs to for very long periods of time!
It should be okay for short "oooh, look at the pretties!" moments, but I definitely wouldn't advise setting up a blacklit TF display!
Wheezel wrote:I'm just going to point out that black lights typically put out a band of UV that you REALLY don't want to expose your TFs to for very long periods of time!
It should be okay for short "oooh, look at the pretties!" moments, but I definitely wouldn't advise setting up a blacklit TF display!
Oh I don't. I just thought that was an odd kind of thing that everyone might like to try.
I didn't know however that there was a detrimental aspect to the UV band. Does it break the plastic down or create yellowing or both?
UV light is the portion of the light spectrum that causes the most chemical change. Primarily due the energy of one photon being able to break simple bonds. This means that dyes and polymers are damaged especially easily. Most new plastics contain stabilizers that protect the polymers and dyes inside. However, old toys are especially vulnerable due to the complete absence of these chemicals.
In laymen's terms, you won't see as much yellowing/discoloration as you would with comparable exposure to sunlight, because the particular band of UV involved with blacklight isn't as strong as with sunlight.
However, you WILL end up with more BRITTLENESS, as the lower band that blacklights usually work in break down the bonds of your plastic more efficiently than sunlight.
But again, short bursts are ok! Just not recommended for long term lighting. Oh, and you also might look out for the distance you have the light from the toys, as black lights also tend to burn VERY hot.
Fluorescent lights only give off visible light. An electrical discharge flows through mercury vapor, giving off UV light in the near spectrum. This near UV light then reacts with a phosphorescent compound coated on the glass (the white stuff) which absorbs all of the UV light and gives off certain bands of visible light. So unless the a portion of the phosphor coating is missing, no UV light escapes from the tube.
Close, but not quite, Rattrap. Fluorescents DO emit a small amount of UV. The study I read showed that 8 hours in an office setting under fluorescent lighting was equivalent to one hour on a clear sunny July day in Washington D.C. That's not *much* mind you... but you also have to bear in mind that often, your fluorescents aren't going to be eight feet over your transformers head, so they'll get a bit more.
I don't have any concrete info on how much UV exposure it takes to start the yellowing process, or whether or not effects are cumulative across the years (say, for example, your Jetfire has a critical UV exposure time of 300 hours, and he got 250 hours of sunbathing in in 1988... if he gets another 50 hours in 2008, will that cause him to start yellowing? Or will he need a full 300 hours still?)
I'm not trying to be overly gloomy here guys... in MOST circumstances, standard fluorescents *should* be fine. But on the other hand, I CAN verify that prolonged flourescent exposure WILL yellow some particularly susceptible figures (i.e. Jetfire). But we're probably talking about somewhere between 5 and 15 years of lighting, depending on numerous factors.
There ARE fluorescent lamps that completely block UV, but they are significantly more expensive than a standard fluorescent bulb.
Hey mods? Can we move this lighting discussion to a new thread?
And your oddball/foreign/pre Transformer collection, Jose!
Thanks for the move... I just thought this discussion should be out away from the 'secrets' thread, since it was pretty off topic, yet pseudo-informative.
Yellowing is cumulative, the plastic yellows even before you notice any visible yellowing. So it doesn't need to be exposed to 300 hours in a row to begin the yellowing process, otherwise there would be no problem. Rather after 300 hours there is noticeable yellowing. The process is a slow degradation of the plastic polymers (since stabilized in most toys after 1998). The decomposition is caused by UV light absorption, so its a constant process. A UV photon hits the right atom in the polymer and it decomposes, or potentially it hits another compound and creates a free radical that decomposes the polymer. The reaction doesn't require a start time, as long as UV light is applied the reaction occurs.
When fluorescent lights emit UV light, its usually has a wavelength of 364 nm or 405 nm, placing it in the UVA spectrum (405 is technically visible, but its close). The UVA spectrum is the least damaging portion and is usually to low in energy to cause decomposition. The UVB spectrum is what does the most damage to plastics, 315 nm - 280 nm. This means that even if 8 hours under fluorescent lights would produce the same amount of UVA radiation as 1 hour under the sun, the damage would be much less due the the absence of UVB and UVC radiation. Yellowing shouldn't occur for a very very long time. You should probably be more worried about yellowing due to light from the windows, than the lighting.
On a side note: Black lights also emit mostly UVA light (350 nm - 370 nm), however the volume of this radiation is more than enough to make up for the weakened damaging power.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I'll re-post later when I've dug up the research and numbers to back this up, but:
1) Fluorescents DO have UVB output.
2) Much of the UVB in sunlight is filtered by the panes of glass.
3) Certain types/brands of fluorescents are worse than others (Compact fluorescents, for example, can put out over FOUR times the UV of a standard flourescent bulb)
4) Reflectors muddle the issue.
Obviously, I'm not trying to say that it's fine to put your vintage TFs in front of the window. Nor am I trying to say you should freak out about having them under fluorescents... however, there IS cause for concern, and we really *should* be thinking about the long term effects of our lighting choices.
Again, I CAN personally verify that Fluorescent lighting ALONE can yellow a G1 Jetfire. It might take years upon years... but we plan on having our TFs for years, don't we?
EDIT: Okay, this all gets *really* confusing after a bit, once you start trying to account for all the potential variables. The simplest answer? I'd recommend, whenever possible, to stick a plastic diffuser over your fluorescent bulbs, just to be on the safe side. These should run you around $4-6 USD each, and reduce your UV radiation by 40-99%.
EDIT: Removed references to UVC. Not sure what we were thinking here, as UVC generally is NOT found in sunlight nor artificial light, except in laboratories.
Last edited by Banzai-Tron on Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Does it break the plastic down or create yellowing or both?
this a very interesting thread keep it coming guys 
