Prime time thread - please read message #1

[Ironhide]

Mod note - please read!

I have collected a few which I considered, useful posts about the Optimus Prime toy. With the massive number of KOs of good quality being around, why not making for our own sake, a good quality review about the different Primes?

Please feel free to contribute with either questions or facts. This thread can be consulted as a very useful guide. How about that?

Regards,
Jose.

Just now I won me a MIB G1 Optimus, complete with styrofoam inserts, apparently never played with, parts on sprues and bagged, for USD100.
If it wasn't Wednesday, I'd drink to that!!!!

[Sideways]

Sounds too good to be true, If you ask me.

[Ironhide]

Yeah, I know.
Hopefully we're both wrong. There were no warning lights on the seller or item though, so I'll just have to wait and see

edit: If anyone would like to help check out the item, PM me and I'll give you the ebay-link.

[Commander Megatron]

If it's an item that you have won and the auction is closed go ahead and post up the link.

C.M.

[Ironhide]

Moderator edit: I have replaced the link for the description, so it won't expire after eBay deletes the auction from their records, for informative purposes - thanks.

Up for auction is a 1984 Generation One Optimus Prime. He is 100% complete, box, foam insert, accessories, and toy itself in mint condition. Never played with. Date stamp says Takara Japan 1980,1984. This is from my personal collection and only reason for selling is I have to fix my truck. It is a excellent piece for any collection.

If you have any question or would like any different pictures please feel free to email me.

Shipping and Handling cost. Inside the U.S. will be $10.00 outside the U.S. will be $20.00.

edit: please check the link and give your expert insights!

[Banzai-Tron]

Hoo-Boy. This one's going to be tough. Firstly, I preface things by saying it's impossible to tell from the Ebay pics.

Secondly, I'm going to quote the seller from another auction:
"up for auction is black optimus prime (FRENCH REISSUE) box was opened only to prove its date stamp.it says takara japan 1980 1982 made in france.as far as the purple stickers. i have seen a few but not many..mint mint mint cond. never played with opened only to prove contents. the last time someone said it was a fake and ebay took it off.i dont know what there prob. was but i know it came to me sealed in box and i only took it out to prove that its (NOT PAINTED)(NOT JUNK).and ill say it again reissue reissue reissue(CAME TO ME EXACTLY AS YOU SEE IT)and to those who think otherwize should do a little more homework on there transformers. because even if someone was stupid enough to put lipstick on it and call it a pig. under the lipstick its still a reissue black prime."

His statements there are blatantly WRONG. It (the black prime he was selling) IS a KNOCK-OFF, and most definitely NOT a "reissue".

Given that auction, to me, his credibility regarding discerning fakes/knock-offs/reissues is completely shot with me.

If this is for your personal collection, and you have no intent to ever resell, I wouldn't worry at all. Chances are you'll never notice any slight differences between the knock-off primes and an original.

If you do care, we'll be needing pics of the box, copyright tampo, closeups, etc. Both Prime and the Styro look immaculate... which to me is an immediate red flag, especially given the lack of a picture of the box.

I'm not trying to be a buzzkill... I'm just stating the unfortunate situation that his arisen due to that slew of near-perfect knock-offs that hit in the last couple years. For that reason, I won't even look at a G1 Prime that doesn't have 'provenance' (i.e. wear to the box, lol)

[Commander Megatron]

He looks the part, i guess you won't really know until you get him.

[Roar]

Hound,

I'm with the good Commander here he does look the part, you needn't fret and worry about it until you get the toy for a better look-see at the stampings 'cause that'll just run you crazy.

I'd suggest posting pictures in here for the experts in here because they really know their stuff and consulting Fred's Transformers place to kind of dope out what kind of critter you have when you get it.

I too like the others was troubled by the lack of a picture of the exterior box but the other place charges right smart for its pictures and he may not have been able to afford more pictures.

A lot of people only put one up one picture of their item and this fellow has three.

I have seen people complain about the styrofoam inserts of a lot of Transformers looking good with the toy boxed but when they got the insert it was broken off in places or smashed in the comments for feedback.

That could be why he concentrated photos on that instead of an exterior box shot.

Anyhoo.........

Your man has good feedback, communication etc. and if you had questions or wanted extra pictures of the toy he seemed to not be too troubled by buyers asking because he encouraged them to do so in the auction.

Really your toy does look great! I wish my 'Prime looked that good!

If your Optimus' pedigree does turn out to be dubious..... you can either get a refund/return it or.......you can enjoy him for his looks and put him on display. In time of you want to sell it or parley it into a trade you'll make at least some of your investment back.

If he is the real deal then you got a good steal! The pump, hose, and nozzle for Optimus runs $50.00 and up USD alone!

[Commander Megatron]

I guess time will tell Hound, just be patient for now.

[Ironhide]

Thank you all for your help!
I did request more pics from the seller, though he haven't replied yet.
As CM says, he I guess I will have to be patient

[Ironhide]

My Optimus arrived today, and I instantly got the feeling I've been had.
I've taken alot of pics of it, the reason they're huge is so you can spot any detailing that should/shouldn't be there...



























Seems there was a reason the box wasn't show in the auction, if it had, I would've spotted it.
I believe it's the 'complete circle' of cardbox around the window plus the slightly shortened picture on the back, the ravages aren't complete, as they should've been?
I mailed him 4 times requesting pics of stamps and box, but got no response, got fed up and paid up.

I think what I've got is this thing.

So what to do, what to do. I guess the figure itself is pretty much undiscernable from the real thing and the quality feel nice, though I have no comparison. So it could always just be a nice display figure, but at the same time I really want to report it and get back my outlay. It's not about the money, it's the principle thing!!

[Grimlock]

Simple way around it ................. Report it to E - Bay and see what happens.

[Commander Megatron]

Simple way around it ................. Report it to E - Bay and see what happens.

That is what i was gonna suggest!

[Banzai-Tron]

Alas, I'm not going to be of much help on this one, as I'm about to head out of town for two weeks, so I won't be available to make comparisons with my multitude of Prime variations....

Two things that would be helpful:

1) An extreme close-up of that piece of tape on the styro. Is it as yellowed as it appears to be? Does it look like it's been stuck on there for a LOOOONG time? Or does it look more like either a piece of tape that's been made to look old, or a piece of truly old tape that has been added by artificial means (look for extra glue, unnatural degradation of the styrofoam under it, etc)

2) Is there a stamp INSIDE the circular indentation under the trailer (you know, where Primes trailer hitch plugs in to tow the trailer)?

[Ironhide]

Wheezel,

I'm no expert on tape or glue, but here's what I think.
It is yellowed, with dust/dirt around the edges.
It's made a yellow stain on the styro, 'where it once was applied'.
Loose end is completely dry.
Glue seems genuine to me when loosening it slightly from the styro.
Also, the styro itself is dirtier than it appears in the pics, slightly dirty and yellowed in areas, just slightly, but definitely not bone white.

There's no stamp in the indentation, just the writing you can see in the pic.

I've noticed two more details:
1. The number 4 is imprinted on the back of OP's head.
2. The tires have 'Formula Desert Dog' written on the tirewall.

I'm certain the box is fake. It has about as much wear as a regular TF-box in a store, but apparently it was never sealed! There's no tape on it, nor any evidence there ever was.

Is it at all possible somebody put a nice complete OP and styro inside a fake box to make it MIB, because the figure itself is pretty dusty in parts and does show very slight sticker wear for example?

[Cliffjumper]

wow if thats a KO its dam good

[Jose]

The box is fake, I'm positive. The font lettering which says "Autobot Commander Optimus Prime" is different (more rounded, the original is a Microstyle). Take a further look, does it say "Iakara" instead of "Takara" on the back? Look also for that on the instructions.

As for the figure, I have doubts. The tires on the fake do say "Desert Dog" too, like the original. They may have been made with the real tools. But the front ones look a bit wide to me (they can be replaced though). The rivet of the front wheels on the cab doesn't look right either.

The trailer leaves me thinking. It could be real. The fakes I knew (back to 2006) had the "Made in France" stamping.

I don't see the pump and nozzle, these are the weakest parts of the KO. They made them as a single plastic piece.

[Grimlock]

I am sure that Derricks Optimus Prime box is a fake, but the toy is genuine.
I think that it is a fake because the writing on the back of the box, next to the graph thingy is in an italic style font.

[Banzai-Tron]

Thanks Jose!

You pretty much summed up everything I was hesitating to say because I'm not at home to verify my instincts, and I've already proven how faulty my memory circuits have become.

IIRC, while the vast majority of the "MIB" g1 fakes had the Made in France trailer stamp, not all of them did. There was a 'corrected wave' in which they fixed the most obvious box differences, and removed the M.i.F. stamping. I've also seen them sold with two piece hose/nozzle fakes, as well as easily obtainable "fake" aftermarket hose/nozzle replacement sets that can be swapped in.

The rash of g1 accurate knockoff's have made a mess of some things, especially Prime. And especially when you take into account the legitimate prime variations.

I purchased a "MIB G1 Prime" that turned out to be:
1) KO Box
2) KO Cab with Broken Headlights due to
3) Bloated Fists/Gun
4) Genuine G1 Trailer (though NOT one that should've came with bloated parts)
5) Genuine GTWO hoze/nozzle
6) Genuine Styro

One of these days, I'm putting a bolt through his head.

[Jose]

thanks all for the replys and trying to help, but i think everyones on about diffrent op primes (not supriseing which the amount of times hes been redone!!!).
anyway it was bugging me so i took it to bits to see whats what, not only was the spring not included with the comm. version (hes the 1 with the dodgy long missiles) but also the clip/ trigger and a blanking bar so it wouldnt hold the launcher back if there was a spring to fire the roller?, god only know why as lets face it roller never realy went fether than the trailer end in anycase let alone put some ones eye out !!!.
well not happy with is i took apart an old g2 junker trailer and got the spring out of it, then removed the blanking bar out of the clip and reassembled it, now its fully working and can say better than ever, as the larncher now gos the full length of the track , no just a few cms and stops.
also did these few photos to try and help people under stand the diffrence of the op primes i have (japanese op prime, g1 origanal op prime, g2 prime and finaly this one comm. op prime )
g1 = g1
japan = japanese relise
g2 = g2
comm. = commemorative series

the one in the circle is the 1 the question was about


hes all 4 of the type i have in inners (except g2)


this is the stip down of the fireing clip (the 1 at the front of the trailer)

compaired to g2 (and standard fire ones)


these are some other diffrences to watch for

trailer colour, ive found the reissues (comm. and japan) have a more gray colour to the origanal version with seems a bit more silver gray (lighter)


also the cabs differ too

although it dosnt realy show here, but the origanal op cab seems to be slightly darker blue.
g2 version has a lighter blur and a slightly darker red than the others (also note the slight retool on the front windscreen, were it turns down to place the fists)((above photo side view)


also fists are diffrent


missiles


and roller

note that the comm. roller is infact a standard g1 version blue with silver paint, the japan. 1 is silver plastic

all in all i have to say when it comes to the commemorative series there is a diffrence ...not for the better too.
on the prime, no fireing missiles,no fireing launcher, repainted roller and small smoke stakes too boot, but the good news is if you do have a junker prime or can get the bits, its easy to get the launchers back working.
oh one last note, there is diffrences to most of the comm. series figures compaired to the origanal, mainly its missles ans lanchers and plastic colours, but if yer ever get comm. jazz, youll find out just how he got the name putty face